The Scott Townsend Show
Conversations, perspectives, and insight from some of the brightest minds, facilitated by everyone's friend, Scott Townsend
The Scott Townsend Show
#229 The Emotional Cost of Clutter w/ Ben Townsend
We explore the emotional and mental challenges of decluttering during life transitions and how our attachment to possessions can hold us back from moving forward.
• Moving reveals the overwhelming accumulation of possessions that often go unused for years
• The emotional challenge of parting with items tied to significant memories and life events
• How digital alternatives can preserve memories while reducing physical clutter
• The mental clarity and reduced anxiety that comes from simplified surroundings
• Starting small and celebrating incremental progress when tackling overwhelming projects
• Finding balance between honoring the past and making space for new experiences
• Learning from the movie "Up" about the freedom that comes from letting go
• The importance of being intentional with possessions moving forward
Send us an email at scott@scotttownsend.info and let us know what you thought about this episode. We'd love to connect with our listeners!
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Welcome to the Scott Townsend Show brought to you by Pizza man Productions. All right, so hey, this is Scott Townsend, welcome back to the Scott Townsend Show, and I'm here again with Ben, again with Ben, sweet Ben Townsend. What's going on, sweet Ben?
Speaker 2:Moving, moving and unboxing, so you you know.
Speaker 1:First off, just a little bit about us. No, I don't think anybody knows that we're Delaware Indian, Not that they should, but there's a little peek behind the curtain, and so Ben's Delaware name is Little Bear or Mokta, and mine is Little Blue Hill.
Speaker 2:And that is.
Speaker 1:Owl in that chewy, so there's a little little uh bonus material for everyone out there listening, watching what'd you have for breakfast this morning?
Speaker 2:uh, I pretty much went with my regular gentacular routine. Okay, two eggs head up two eggs head up.
Speaker 1:Two eggs head up. Yeah, so in in the past, uh, yeah, you uh, how's the move going? I mean, it looks like you're in your house now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, moving boxes, um, it's going well. It's uh, we we kind of. We were fortunate to be able to like move in like the same day In fact, I was talking to my builder and it's kind of a you know something that people don't normally agree to, but before we closed on the house, I mean, we pretty much already paid for it, but before we closed on the house, I started moving stuff in. Just, you know, the main things you got to, you know, move in, like your bed and dresser. Cause our approach was, you know, know, whenever we can move into our house, we can't move everything in all at once. So we're going to move in, um, we're going to move our bed in. Priority items were a bed and a dresser, and then our bath, you bathroom items and a few things in the kitchen. Um, almost like you know, we're just going to go stay somewhere for, uh, a long weekend. You know, aside from you know, move your bed, but you know had to have that. But that was kind of our approach because we want to be in as soon as possible and start enjoying our home space we have here, because where we were living was very small and it went on for a lot longer than we thought it was going to because of life circumstances, and so we were fortunate to be able to do that, but since then it's just been a mad dash.
Speaker 2:I have a total of four storage units, had a total of four storage units. The two bigger ones were in a town that's 45 minutes away from here, so it was lots of back and forth. I rented a U-Haul trailer, and if you're just going to do it local, that's really pretty economical, because that that trailer although I would have liked to had a little bit bigger trailer still did the job. Um, and it was 29 bucks a day for just a local rental. You know where you go in and just rent it in the morning and drop it back off in the evening 29 bucks a day, you know.
Speaker 2:I think, it's a great deal, um, so anyway, so I, you know I'd rent it for several days at a time, you know, as we were going through this process. But that's what we've been doing, and so that's interesting. In this process, you know you, you you bring home a big load of boxes and you move those boxes into your house along with all the bugs that have gotten into those boxes while they've been in storage for two and a half years. And, um, your new house, yeah, new house. And then you know you, you're furious, furiously, trying to unload those boxes and put them where it makes sense. And you do that and you get to a point where you feel good, you know about, you know kind of where you are with things. And then you go after another big trailer load and you get to a point where you feel good about kind of where you are with things, and then you go after another big trailer load and you dump it back in the house and now your house is a total wreck all over again.
Speaker 2:So it's been waves of that activity and those waves are finally easing the joys of moving, the joys of moving, and in that whole process I just feel like we have just too much stuff, too much stuff and I don't want all that stuff. I don't want all that stuff and, and you know, I just I told janet and I've told several people I just simply have to be better, you know, going forward, I have to be better at decluttering as I go so I think I mentioned to you on the phone the other night like if, for example, if I want to buy a shirt, I'll buy this shirt, I bring it in.
Speaker 2:I need to be looking through my closet for the shirt that then has to go. There's all kinds of mental challenges and people. Some people will hear that, I think, and it will completely resonate. Other people would hear it and say that stuff represents lots of investment. Yes, it does.
Speaker 1:Sunk cost, the fallacy of sunk cost.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's a good way of putting it, but you wind up with clothes that are out of style. I tried on a pair of jeans. I don't even remember where I got them. They were Nautica jeans. I didn't really like them. I don't know why I ever bought them.
Speaker 2:Maybe I got them as a gift, I don't know, I honestly don't remember. But I put them on and they fit, perfect, perfect fit. And I went in there and I said what do you think about these jeans? I didn't really like them. I went yes, what do you think about these jeans? Jen's like well, you know they fit, they fit you really nice, but they're kind of out of style. And I'm like, yeah, that's exactly what I think were they bedazzled?
Speaker 1:uh, the jewel, the jewel they weren't.
Speaker 2:But you know, they had kind of like strange stitching. It was a dark blue denim and I kind of like. I kind of like, uh, you know, kind of a stonewashed kind of look right versus a dark blue look not necessarily faded, but just and not light, but kind of like that middle ground. That's where I like them. She has slightly worn, kind of.
Speaker 1:Yeah I like that kind of like that middle ground.
Speaker 2:That's where I like them. It has a slightly worn kind of look.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that kind of faded, worn, stonewashed look.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's what I like, and these were like dark Anyway. So I just took them off, I folded them up, I put them in our box that is to go to Goodwill, and with the next load of stuff, and I've had load after load after load of things going to Goodwill and also just straight out to the trash.
Speaker 1:So anybody out there listening, we're going to be giving away these Nautica jeans, and so you know the first person to respond to this will get a pair of Nautica jeans. What's the waist? 44 and length is?
Speaker 2:Yeah, 48, 42. Of nautica genes. What's the waist?
Speaker 1:uh, 44, and length is yeah, 48, 42, 48, 32, sorry no, but uh, yeah, just uh, hey, ben, send me some of your detrius send me some of your send me, send me a piece of crap, and we might be able to do that. We might be able to do that. We might be able to do that.
Speaker 2:Send me your sartorial cast-offs.
Speaker 1:And we might just be able to pull that off. So yeah, first person to mention that in the YouTube comments or on the podcast comments, whatever, let us know and we'll see what we can do. We'll see if we can get Ben to shed some of his uh history there. So yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people myself included you hold on to stuff like. I'm looking at a collection of stuff right now. It's a bunch of little star wars spaceships. They're still in the box and it looks like there's 33 of them and I've had them for a long time and I don't I can't even see them because they're in the box. So I mean this kind of stuff, I don't know why.
Speaker 1:I thought that would be interesting I mean star wars, but hang on a second. I want to get up and be nude. If anybody's interested in this, uh, star wars collection, make me a deal. Yeah, probably just need to get rid of it. But it's these little. Yeah, I remember seeing all those, yeah, yeah, and so each one, it's, each box is numbered, you know. But I collect stuff like this hunter does too. Yeah, and does he? Yeah, oh, I'll just, I'll just send him to hunter, okay that's easy, that was an easy one.
Speaker 1:Um, it's okay, hunter, you got, uh, some star wars ships coming your way, but I've had these for a long time and my point is, there's a lot of stuff I have that I've had for a long time and you keep them for various reasons. The hardest ones to get rid of are your children's crayon drawings, when they were four and five, you know, and you still have them, with good intention, you know. But really, really, what are you going to do with those? You know, I mean, and then you feel like such a jerk for, uh, being callous enough to throw them away and and move on.
Speaker 2:So it's, it's sticky right there so that is the mental challenge, right?
Speaker 2:This, the emotional attachment you have to those things they made when they were in kindergarten or they were in the church, uh, preschool, and you come, you, you come out of church and you have a Polaroid picture of your child, all the smartly dressed and hair like for little boys which we had, you know, hair, you know, um, very, um, um, cut and combed, and they're there and they, they look just adorable, adorable.
Speaker 2:And they've got a Polaroid picture coming out of class put into a tongue depressor frame that they made and colored on while they're right there in class. You know, and you see those kinds of things and you know there's a lot of sentimental, no value that those things have. But you collect all those things and so there's just lots of ways of dealing with it. Maybe we can talk about that in a minute. But all those things so those put together with all their Boy Scout uniforms, all the other things that they collected over the years, all the things that you bought, because the things you were into at the time when your children were small, at one time I know Matthew was into soccer, so he probably has lots of soccer stuff, soccer awards- Rugby.
Speaker 2:Rugby, those kind of things.
Speaker 1:Karate.
Speaker 2:Sports Karate Yep, mine too. And then I have all this camping gear and I got camping gear on top of camping gear. I got fishing gear on top of fishing gear. I got hunting gear on top of camping gear. I got fishing gear on top of fishing gear. I got hunting gear on top of hunting gear. Seriously like repeats of everything, like you know.
Speaker 2:And I'm sitting around looking and so it causes me, you know, as I'm looking at it, I realize these things that I stored in a box because I had too much of an emotional attachment to let go of. The truth is, I never looked in those boxes. So what good is it doing? What I know for sure? One thing it was doing to me is it was kind of reducing my mental clarity, you know, because I had all this clutter. So I just like this, all this, uh, this mental noise, and it kind of causes stress and anxiety because I'm, when I'm looking around at my new workshop, I got racks on covering two walls. It's a 30 by 30 workshop. I got racks covering two walls and they're full of stuff and I still have stuff in boxes on the floor that I still have to go through and I'm like this has to stop.
Speaker 1:I just simply have to be better at this yeah, you just built a big closet, basically what it sounds like yeah, and so it's not going to stay that way.
Speaker 2:Like I'm, I'm totally, absolutely committed, um, to, you know, being better at it, going through each box and not losing steam in that process and going through a process of decluttering and what. What kind of amounts to tough decisions. It feels that way, but on the other side of those tough decisions, I think is a better emotional state. Honestly, that's what it is, because when you have stuff piled up in everywhere, I felt like I was just drowning in all that stuff, just drowning in it, and I couldn't even use it all, and it takes a lot of effort to deal with it mental more than physical, for sure yeah, and then you look at it.
Speaker 2:You look at all this stuff, like all the clothes we, the clothes that I've given away we've given away, you know, amounts to thousands of dollars worth of just clothes, not to mention all the other stuff we've thrown. We've thrown away stuff or put us into goodwill so it has tags on it and we don't.
Speaker 1:We don't normally do that, but we were surprised that you know the few things we found that still have tags on it you know, a lot of times when you're holding on to clothes this is me a lot of times I'll hold on to them, thinking I'm going to wear this at some point. Uh, and there's a difference between seasonal clothes, you know. So of course you're going to keep your long sleeve shirts and your short sleeve shirts. But then there's other shirts like uh, maybe it's a holiday themed shirt, uh, maybe it's. I have one shirt that's a red, white and blue shirt I wear every memorial day and fourth of july, but other than that I don't wear it and and and there's.
Speaker 1:I think there's a lot of times I'm thinking you know, I got this denim vest. I might go to a country western dance sometime. I might need that vest. I'm not gonna go to a country western thing. You know, I've had that thing for so many years. It just needs to go on, like so many other things. But I've got an excuse for why. It's easier just to make an excuse, roll over and say well, you know, I might, I might need this one of these days. I'm gonna really kick myself if I don't have it, that's that day's not coming. And if it does come, then you just roll with it and move on, but you'll survive. You'll survive. It's no big deal.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and some of those things, and so where people get hung up is you're absolutely right, some of those things you probably will find an occasion to use, so that's going to happen 5% of the time.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So why are you keeping 100% of the junk and 95% of stuff that you'll never use again? So you know. And then so you get into these boxes, man, and you know it's tough, it's really, it's really kind of hard In some these boxes, man, and you know it, it's, it's tough, it's really it's really kind of hard.
Speaker 1:So in some cases it is, in some cases it's not right. Um you know, it's tough where it's not hard.
Speaker 2:It's tough where it's not hard, but when when you're a cancer survivor, like janet is and you open a box, like she did last night, and had her wigs in there because she had no hair. You know, during that time, and then the, the mannequin that you set the wigs on to like you don't like groom a wig on your hair. I mean, we don't know anything about wigs but she had to learn her, her, her process, right, but you know, I think also, you know those kind of things are kind of like a, a reminder of emotional triggers 100% and triggers 100.
Speaker 2:and the other thing is it kind of like it will trigger thoughts like, well, do I need to keep this, do I need to keep this, this wig and this mannequin? Because what if the cancer comes back and it triggers things like that? And so she burst into tears and the next thing, you know, you know I get tears rolling because it's so hard they remind you of all that hard time.
Speaker 1:And one thing leads to another and you're going down this road just because of something that you're looking at. You know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's kind of painful, some of those things are kind of painful, but just letting go of them and just living your best life going forward. And yeah, there's all kinds of things a small airplane that comes crashing through my living room, but I can't, you know, in the future, but I can't live my life worried about that or worried about being in a car crash, or you know, those things can happen, you know. But you can't live your life in fear, um, you know. But when you've been in a car crash, a bad car crash, and I haven't, and, um, preferably I will never be, but I think.
Speaker 1:Those are the things you think about when you get in a car, you know, because those are hard memories to shake for people. Thank you for joining me. Scott Townsend Show. We'll be back right after this. Before we continue, the best way to support the Scott Townsend Show is by telling friends, family members and becoming a patron at patreoncom. Forward slash the Scott Townsend Show. So yeah, we have awesome perks personalized videos, personalized episodes, all kinds of cool stuff at different tier levels. Patreon allows us to do the show full-time, part-time, anytime. So thank you so much for your support and so there's just things like that.
Speaker 2:But you can't let those things dominate your life, and so we're just trying to kind of put those things into practice, um increase, increase our mental clarity and have this kind of like emotional release of letting these things go and having that, that relief, and not be dominated by all the stuff that you you can't use, don't want, um, and nobody else cares about either. So this is why people don't like to move.
Speaker 1:This is why people don't like to move. Number one it's physically daunting. Number two, it's emotionally wrecking. You know, when you have to make this, okay, I have to make this decision now. Do I keep this? You know, it's really easy to put in a box this metaphor everybody uses. You know, put in a box and just kind of tuck it away and you don't deal with it, and so that's safe and uh, you've delayed a decision.
Speaker 1:But all these decisions start piling up and then you get into a position like you are where you move and it should be a fun time, exciting time, and I'm sure that it is, but it's also also tainted with all these memories that now you have to deal with that you didn't deal with back then, or that I didn't deal with back then, and so we delay the pain, and so when you're moving into a new and exciting chapter of your life, unfortunately for a lot of people out there, it's smeared with this. Okay, okay, I really have to deal with what I want to do with this stuff, you know. And so it kind of takes away a little bit of the fun, you know, because the decision hasn't been made. No one wants to make those decisions.
Speaker 2:Well, it prevents you from living your best life, going forward, because you're all that stuff, really your house, you know your garage, wherever you're storing, on your attic, basement, whatever it is you know these things are you basically become a museum you know, your family's history and your extended family history. Right, you know my grandma or whoever passed away. Now I have. You know, all these uh quilts you that were handmade and sort of sit there. We never use them, but we have them you know, but, but.
Speaker 2:All these things, I think, prevent you from living your best life, going forward. I think they reduce your focus on what's bringing your, what's bringing the most joy to your life. Now you know and where you're trying to move forward because it's a constant reminder and you're too cluttered literally cluttered from the past to move forward.
Speaker 1:Oh damn it, we just had another outage. Call sweet ben mobile, all right. So hey, we're back and um here visiting with ben about, uh, moving and decluttering. We just had a power outage a while ago. So this is the next day. The next half of this show is the next day. I think some squirrels got up into the transformer in the backyard and it happened again the other day.
Speaker 1:Two days in a row Squirrels getting up in transformer, uh, blowing the power out in the neighborhood. So I kind of got that figured out. I got my have a heart traps out. Now I'm trying to trap squirrels so we can depopulate the squirrel population here save our power.
Speaker 2:We had, um, we had some problems with squirrels, um, when we lived at our other house and, um, it was interesting because I had some notes. The other day I'm trying to recover my notes from stuff I wanted to say in this podcast, but anyway, I started trapping squirrels and I trapped them in my backyard and I drive them off into the countryside and let them go. I stopped, I I thought I had maybe a dozen squirrels or something. I stopped counting. After 30. You have way more squirrels than you think you did dang yeah.
Speaker 1:So anyway, that happened, so we're back and we're uh if you're listening, you probably won't uh notice too much of a transition here uh, if you're watching different clothes you're watching, you'll see different clothes, but that's fine.
Speaker 2:But these things are just like hooks to the past and memories of the past and stuff. I think are really good, especially for somebody who's like you know, I'm more sentimental than I ever thought I really was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know I am way more sentimental than you'll ever be. I cry at the tissue commercials.
Speaker 2:but yeah, but they're hooked, they keep you in the past and and they and they um, because they prevent you from moving forward and they're they're not like emotional. I won't say that either. I'm not gonna say that it's not emotional baggage, because it is emotional, you know but but it just kind of keeps you anchored in the past and it prevents you from moving forward. And the truth is your kids have moved on and you know they probably haven't given it a second thought.
Speaker 2:They don't care, they really don't. And if you think they do, then offer it back to them and see if they want it and they'll say, ah no, I'm good. Yeah, because they're moving on with their lives. And you know our boys and Matthew too. You know they're married, they have their own lives or they're raising their own kids. That's their focus. And if you want to impact their world, do something that that helps them out with that Right and that makes those experiences great and rich and all that kind of stuff moving forward. And just you know, keep those things that are in the past. Keep that group of things very small. Keep the in the past. Keep that group of things very small. Keep the things in front of you very large. Challenge yourself, live outside the box, outside the rules. Do something every once in a while. It kind of like is a challenge to societal norms. Do something you know to keep your life interesting. Focus on your marriage, your kids, your work if you're still working all that kind of stuff and move forward where you want to go.
Speaker 2:You know what. You're still working all that kind of stuff, um, and, and move forward where you want to go. You know what, what you want the next uh, 20 to 30 years, look like you know. Do you want to do some traveling? Do you want to just stay at home and garden? Do you want to? You know, do some volunteer work, or or do some stuff with your, with your church or civic organization, you know, just kind of building a community. However you do that, however, however you define what that is for you.
Speaker 2:I think those things are important to me anyway, and different people have different things. But if, but, if you have a 30 by 30 shop and you you have to slide sideways between all the junk. Now, I have a tractor in there too. It takes up a lot of space, but I still I I'm telling you, I've got, I'm going to get rid of, I'll say, at least 40 of the stuff that's in my garage. I'm going to do that, whether I give it away or have a garage sale or whatever I do, I'm it's going, it's happening, I'm committed to it and I'm committed also to being better at it as I go forward. Right, because, because it's it's preventing me from going forward, right.
Speaker 1:How is it preventing you from going forward?
Speaker 2:Well, number one, I simply don't have the space to really to put other things, and then when I, when I try to, you know, just keep stacking more and more stuff in there, um, I wind up with a very cluttered space, you know, and therefore, kind of it amounts to me, it makes me feel, as I look at it and try and start to deal with it, it makes me feel anxious, a little bit anxious, and I lose kind of like my mental clarity because I got to deal with that, and dealing with that and the enormity of the mountain I got to climb to get back on top of this situation is preventing me what I want to be doing right now.
Speaker 1:If you think about it, it's really crazy. You know, you just got through building a brand new let's call it a $200,000 storage unit. Yeah, Is it a house or is it a storage unit? Is it a home or is it? Yeah, is it a storage unit? And I don't think we don't want it to be. I wouldn't want it to be a storage unit, although I would like it to represent my life, but not just to have crap packed in closets and you can't get the stuff you know.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, you want to have something that shows off your like. We have the ofrenda in here, the Spanish word for memory, remembering those who passed away on that little desk there in the living room, and that's cool. It's just headshots of, you know, granddaddy and dad and Celeste's grandparents and parents and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:But and so it's a token, it's a visual representation, but that there's no more. It's a token, it's a visual representation, but there's no more. I mean, there's no more. It does its job, like if you have a medal, or like when I was in the Wall Street Journal and I have that framed up on the wall over here. That's kind of cool. Little trophies, little trophies, yeah. Along the way.
Speaker 2:Significant things that happen, right yeah, you should keep those things I mean trophies, yeah along the way uh things significant things that happen, right, yeah, those you should keep, those things, I mean, unless you just don't want them right those are. Those are things to like hang on to. They're great conversation pieces. They're markers of significant events in your life. You know you should. You should probably keep those things yeah so, but what?
Speaker 1:at what point is it too much?
Speaker 2:well, it's like, okay, so it's like my, my diploma from oklahoma state. I don't have that displayed anyway. It's in a box and I don't know that I'm going to display it anywhere. I don't really have an office anymore you know, I kind of I. I have this little desk set up in one of these extra bedrooms.
Speaker 2:Oh there, it is right there yeah there, it is right there, but I don't have mine hanging anywhere, you know. Not to say that I won't ever, but it's something also I'm not going to get rid of because I may want to put it up at some point, and that's a significant thing.
Speaker 1:It's a very significant moment in your life, with a lot of time, a lot of money and a lot of a lot of years, you know, four years or whatever.
Speaker 2:Anyway, yeah, so momentous, yeah, and I just want to be. I want to be, I want to be more intentional, like you know, going forward or be more intentional. I want to get things narrowed down to what I'm into now and you know I've got a lot of work to do out here at our little ranch, our property, and so I don't be spending a lot of time doing that. It's kind of like what my job is now. But I also enjoy doing some woodworking, just bumping around out my shop and doing some woodworking. I have some nice woodworking equipment. That's really what I want to focus on and kind of use that space more for things like that, maintenance of things like my truck and tractor and just things I need seasonally here at our new place. So I want to get down to those things that really matter to me and if it happens that I'm looking for something that I got rid of, I'll have to make a decision on whether or not I want to buy that again, or is it really necessary? If it is, I'll buy it, but I think the other thing and I'll just deal with it. But to me that's far better to do that, because I'm doing duplicate buying now anyway because I can't find something. I need it.
Speaker 2:I have a framing nailer and I was working on a project and I wound up damaging the framing nailer. It's a fairly expensive piece of equipment but I was just ticked off. It just made me so angry because I was trying to go, I was trying to get done fast, you know, and so I just I just went right down to home depot and I bought another framing nailer. I brought it back, got it out of the box, tore it out of the box, tore the plastic off, hooked it up to my air hose. You know I'm working on my project, but but then you know I'm going I'm thinking later about back to that framing nailer. I said it was like I shot less than 500 nails through that gun. That's professional grade equipment and I'm like, well, I need to fix it. And so it wasn't a hard fix. I just had to order a part for it.
Speaker 2:There's a housing that I cracked. I was screwing in a new part on it and I cracked this little housing that's like half the size of a deck of cards. So all I had to do is replace it. But I I didn't have time to stop and order something and sit there like bugs. Bunny put it in the mail, tap, tap, tap my foot until it opened the box. Um, uh, so anyway, I have two like two new framing nailers essentially sitting in there, and it's things like that that happen over and over. So you know, so I'm going to get rid of that. But if I ever have to buy something like that again, then I'll I'll do it.
Speaker 2:But what you know, part of the lesson of it is also is when you look at the amount of money and that you spend on buying duplicate things or things that you only use once or that you use and quickly lost interest in, it's staggering. So it helps you learn and recognize the money that you're spending on things that really don't add any meaning to your life. It winds up just being stuff or just kind of like an ill-advised kind of purchase Ill-advised, and not that it't necessarily a bad thing, but um, in in and of itself, but the thing that you're buying was really. There's just another way to get that thing done, or you didn't need to do it in the first place, or it was just kind of an amusement thing.
Speaker 2:You take it home and you spin it around for five minutes and you set it down, you never pick it up again right, I was totally picking that up, but there's lots of things like that oh no, I've done that plenty of times and then other things they just kind of like outlive their usefulness. I mentioned camping, all this camping gear, never going to use it again. Was it a waste of time and money back in the day? No, was not a waste of time and money. But that season is over. It's over and sounds like you'll have one hell of a garage sale yeah, if people are interested in installation and camping, that obviously doesn't.
Speaker 2:It doesn't fit the kind of thing that you need to declutter.
Speaker 2:It's what you're into and that's awesome, so you just got to figure it out what it is for you, you know, and then, uh, just go through that that process, um, and we're starting to kind of get on top of you know, at least our you know the things that we need to have in our home. We've starting to kind of get on top of you know, at least our you know the things that we need to have in our home. We've done a lot of decluttering and we'll do more as we go. I still have a closet, you know, that could outfit Cox's army in my closet, which which my winter stuff spills over into the closet in the extra bedroom, and you know, so I've got I don't need to buy clothes every day. Yeah, crazy, the extra bedroom. And, uh, you know, so I've got, I don't need to buy clothes ever again?
Speaker 1:yeah, crazy. Uh. What do you think are some creative alternatives for storing those memories, for not forgetting? Or what are some creative ways to do something other than just storing stuff?
Speaker 2:well, I mean, it's not if it's something you can take a picture of, like I mentioned, and take a picture of it you know, I think some, some things would be great if you scan them in because, like it's like all of dad's letters back from okinawa right if, if I were to scan all those in, that would take some time.
Speaker 2:If I were to scan all those things in, you know, then I could look at them easily they won't deteriorate from that point forward and I could share them with you or other people you know, then I could look at them easily, they won't deteriorate from that point forward and I could share them with you or other people you know. Those kind of things are deeply personal.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And it's not something I want to like post on the Internet or anything, but I think reducing it. I would never want to get rid of the physical.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 2:You know, but I think it would be easier for me to refer to and do other things with if I had it digitized. I think certain things like I mentioned quilts, family heirlooms, those kind of things so we have like probably six quilts. We can't use six quilts that were done by family members, mostly on janet's side, but, but you know, um our grandmother as well, um, those are harder you know, because they're handmade.
Speaker 2:They're handmade by your family. Just you want to, you know, so you want to, I think. I think maybe those things if there's nobody else in the family, and this is why I would offer up first. You know who might want some of those things. So if you you want to quail, let me know. But you know, if you have some other friends or you know people close to you that could use them, then I think that's a good use of it.
Speaker 2:They were made to be used. They're not made to be museum pieces, they're made to be used and everything that is used has a useful life and then it's over. So you don't feel like you have to be the family archivist and archive and keep everything in museum, pristine thing, behind the glass that people come by and go. Oh wow, you know the first time they come by and then and then it's just in the way after that right you know it's just taking up space.
Speaker 2:So these things are meant to be used. So we should use them and avoid the trap of becoming too like sentimental to get rid of them. But you want, you know, and it comes from a good place you want to honor the work of somebody who sat at their little sewing station and work for I don't know how long it takes them. Well, like that, four weeks, six weeks, something I don't know. I know it takes a long time. It's a very tedious kind of work. You want to honor that, you don't? You don't know, I know it takes a long time, it's a very tedious kind of work. You want to honor that, you don't?
Speaker 1:you don't want to um and the thought that went into it, the love and the exactly. And they're hoping that it's going to uh help and keep somebody warm and uh just be there for them, to comfort them, you know.
Speaker 2:So, all good intentions, so all good intentions, right, and if you use it, you know you're, if you're sitting there, uh, in your easy chair, you know, watching football or whatever you like to watch on TV, and it's cold, you know, you grab Graham, the, um, the quilt that grandma made, and you put that quilt on, just kind of like, you know, getting a hug from grandma and she's long gone. Yeah. So those, those, those are cool things, and so I, so I, you know, I definitely want to hang on to them. I've got, uh, you know, the, the indian blanket that was given back to dad. You know the whole story. But I want to. I want, I don't want to just put those in plastic and put them in the in the thing and just not use them again.
Speaker 2:I want to use them and I haven't, I haven't used, you know that one, but I want to use it. You know I want to use it I use mine, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:In the fall and winter, oh yeah, put that baby, put that Pendleton across the foot of your bed. I feel so good, yep.
Speaker 2:So take pictures, digitize it, give it to somebody, give those things to somebody who can truly use them because they were intended to be used and benefit people, and I think if you're doing that, you're not violating the spirit in which it was made. So I think those are things you can do and I think with these kind of things, as with many things, start small and go through that hallway closet that's out of control. You can't even put a broom in there anymore because of floor space so occupied with boxes and stuff. Start small or the junk drawer. Start small, start small and just do it over time. Now I heard something the other day that's in the original thought for sure, but I saw something somewhere. It said if you see something that needs to be done and it's going to take less than two to three minutes, then drop what you're doing and do it Now. If you have a really junked out place, you can get stuck doing that all day long, but I think the….
Speaker 1:Spend a little bit of time doing it every day, you know just a little bit of time.
Speaker 2:A little bit of time and you know, get into the habit of decluttering.
Speaker 1:You know one of the creative go ahead kind of doing what we're doing right now, uh, this podcast is kind of like, uh, my legacy project and any family member that wanted to watch this listen to it. And here's us talking about decluttering and explaining how hard it is and how to declutter and the challenges that we've seen in decluttering, um, I think would help future generations uh, past generation, you know people still older folks are still alive understand when they hear this conversation, you know they're going to be totally bought into it because they face the same thing, you know. And so, uh, it's no secret that you know you might be giving stuff away, selling, selling it or just or throwing it away, but there's a reason for that and there's a reason for keeping some of the things. But this legacy project, you know, 10 years from now, hunter can be listening to this and going, oh yeah, man, that must have really been.
Speaker 1:You know I understand what he's talking about now because I'm going through the same thing now, you know. So we're kind of imparting wisdom, we're paying it forward and this is not cluttering. You know, this is digital, like you were talking about. So digital has got a lot of things to offer when it comes to decluttering or explaining yourself, helping explain your thought processes and decluttering, but getting rid of stuff is hard, because change is hard. When you're changing up any change, I don't care what it is. It's tough and that's why a lot of people stay where they are or don't do what they need to do, because changing things up is extremely difficult. Yeah, the simplest things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so you also have to redefine what you see as success, because you know when you're, when you are, you know when your children have left the home, however old you are, when you've lived you know several decades of life and you have home and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:I, I, I would, 95 percent of us um wind up probably with um I don't know what the percentage is. A large majority of us, I would guess I would wager have a clutter issue. And when you look, when you look at that clutter issue, especially when you move, it is absolutely daunting and it's so big that you don't even know where to start and it's so big that you don't take it on and all that stuff. Anybody who's watching this?
Speaker 2:If you have a storage unit and you've got stuff in a storage unit, it is way easier in most cases just to continue to pay the hundreds of dollars you're paying per month for that storage unit, rather than tackle that sucker and get that stuff out of there, either use it, sell it or give it away. It's way easier just to continue to pay that money. Then you look back over the years and you still have all that crap and you've wasted thousands of dollars on storage that you didn't need in the first place. And so it's so big that it just turns you away and just I just can't deal with it. I just can't deal with it. But so you, so you can't look at, you can't look at the total, you have to look at pieces.
Speaker 2:And I, and I think you know, setting a, setting a timer, a time limit of whatever it is 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 30- minutes, whatever it is for you and you say, okay, on, on Tuesday and Thursday I'm going to spend 20 minutes and it doesn't matter if I only accomplish one thing out of that whole thing.
Speaker 2:I'm going to eat this elephant, one bite at a time and in time it'll be gone and I will have defeated it going at it piece by piece. It's just like anything else significant in your life. When you're looking at earning a degree I want to get my bachelor's, I want to get my master's, I want to get my doctorate or PhD, I want to go to law school, whatever it is when you first start that program and you're super focused on just the outcome of earning that paper that says I now have my bachelor's degree. Of course that's the goal, but it's so far out there that it doesn't do you much good in focusing on that at any moment in time. So you really kind of redefine your success. You know, class by class, semester by semester. That's how you have to redefine it, so that you have those little intermediate goals where you can experience success and therefore gain confidence. You know in the process and make progress toward your ultimate goal and you're accomplishing things the whole way and that feels really good.
Speaker 2:But, if you define success only as oh you know, I'm looking at this, I'm open the door on the storage. You know, you raise the door and you can't even get in. You can't even step in and I got to do that. You just want to go? Nope, I'm just going to keep paying the money to store this stuff that I'll never, ever use again.
Speaker 1:Oh man, there's such an industry out there, capitalizing, taking advantage of that mindset.
Speaker 2:That's human nature. That's what we do and that's why we get in trouble. And now some people are going to watch this and they're going. I don't do that I. That's why we get in trouble. Now some people are going to watch this and go. I don't do that. I don't do that. Congratulations, you're one of the north and that's great, awesome.
Speaker 1:The other thing is, too, you're going to make a mistake, and what I mean by that is oh sure, throw this away. Or should I not throw it away? Just go ahead. It's not going to wear for the luau in two years, okay? Well, you know, dang, I threw that one away okay, well whatever, it's okay.
Speaker 1:It's okay to make a mistake. I don't even call that a mistake. Um, you're gonna think, well, I might need to use this sometime. Um, just go ahead and pull the trigger, see how easy it really is. And if you really needed it, and if you really needed the tool, maybe just rent it instead of buying it. Just rent it for the day, instead of putting out the money for using it once and then never again. And so just go easy on yourself. That's all I got to say. Just take it easy, just get rid of it, and you'll find that it's not as difficult as you thought it was, although it will be at first. But the more you do it, just like anything else, the easier it will get right just as you justified, just as you justified keeping it.
Speaker 2:You'll be getting really good at justifying getting rid of it right and everybody's, and we've talked about several times, several ways you know, right here in this conversation. But if we're, if you're concerned, probably should be concerned about how, how the people around us are going to be impacted because we're we're decluttering things that were associated with them, you know, whether it's your, your, your children, your spouse, your grandparents, grandparents, your mother, whatever your father, whatever it is, I I think it's easy and it kind of frees you and gives you mental space to take this stuff on by coming clean with them right you know, and just and uh, coming clean.
Speaker 2:Probably a little bit strong, but I would say you're explaining it, yeah just explain it. I'm just in a place where I just like I'm I'm suffocating and stuff it's all going to go through and purging things and you know, I, I, but I want to be.
Speaker 2:I want to be better at going forward in my life than the way I live my life up to this point. Not that I'm dissatisfied, I just want to constantly be getting better and I want to move toward the future, and you're moving towards a different future too, and I want to join you in that. But all this stuff is preventing me from really doing that, and and I, I can't be the archivist. So I've got some things you know that I'm going to be making some decisions about and let me know what you want of these things.
Speaker 2:If you have a list of things, and nine times out of 10, the response is going to be yeah, no, I don't know that stuff. And I understand, and this is kind of one of those things that people can watch. You would ask yourself, you know, you always ask the question what would you go back and tell your 18 year old self? Well, there's somebody who's 18 years old or in their 20s right now, who is probably is watching this, you know. And so what I would tell them is you know, just kind of heed some of this, this advice, because it's super common. This isn't like because you and I are geniuses or whatever.
Speaker 2:This is what everybody goes through and you kind of got it wind up at some point struggling with all this universal yeah, and so I I think just that the message of decluttering as you go um and bring your life of things in the past and we're talking about stuff here, but there's a whole host of things that holds back in the past. So let go of those things and and live your best life going forward.
Speaker 1:Be intentional and focus on the things that really matter for you and your family, who are impacted by all this stuff, for going forward in the best way there's, uh, you know, you and I talked about the movie up and, uh, carl frederickson who, uh, at the end of the towards the end, you know, uh, he loved his wife and she passes away and he never I'm gonna give the ending away, but if you haven't seen up by now that I'm not gonna worry about it he uh feels really bad that he, he and she, never really took a vacation and she always wanted to go to this one place and he and her never got to go to that one place. And so now she's gone and he decides he's going to take him and the house represents her, so he's going to take him and her to that place. And eventually he does.
Speaker 1:He makes it to the place, sets down, the house sets down you know it was flying by balloons, fantastical idea there but then he realizes that life is still moving on. He's still got life to live, he's still got things he needs to help people do and stuff like that. But now he's stuck in this new place because of all this the house, the stuff, everything and he can't move on. He literally cannot move on. It's like a boat anchor around his ankle and then, uh, see, there he is, little carl frederick up there, some absurd amount gave that to me I've watched I've watched uh up 31 times.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah you know, as you're, as you're talking about, I'm like I have got to go and watch that movie again I've watched it the first when it came out and I haven't really thought about it or anything with it, and I think I was probably pretty distracted when I watched it the first time. Yeah, and I didn't get near as much out of it as what you're saying here. I've got we, jan and I need to go back and watch that together. Yeah, everybody go back and watch that yeah, so anyway, he, he's successful.
Speaker 1:Uh, he's he. He does just exactly what we're talking about. It's painful, it's hard, uh, all these freaking memories, and he just has to let it go, and in doing so, he goes on to a new chapter and and more things down the road, you know yeah, and as I recall that movie, he was at the start of the movie, like he's pretty grumpy yeah and not kind of miserable miserable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's just an old grumpy man and he's got his little routines, you know. It takes his geritol and sits on the front porch and then goes to bed, and same thing the next day anyway, it's a great movie and, uh, highly recommend those.
Speaker 1:If you haven't seen up, watch up and I, so I've watched it 31 times. I'm going to watch it again for number 32 and uh, yeah it's. It's a really good movie and I watched it on purpose 31 times because I'm trying to get to 50, because I'm just OCD enough like that, and it's just that good a movie and, I'll tell, such a great job of hiding little easter eggs and putting so much detail that you'll never see on a first viewing or a 10th viewing.
Speaker 1:I don't think it was up until like the 20th view when I noticed the blush on the boy's cheeks when he meets the girl, and this is a little his face kind of blushes when she touches his hand. And I never saw that, you know, and it's one day I'm watching it. I was like, but anyway, so yeah, it's a, it's a good one it is a good movie.
Speaker 2:It's very entertaining and there's there's if you just want to watch it, for the kind of like the cinematic effect of all that kind of stuff, it's still a good movie. But if, if you want to watch it and it kind of get some meaning out of it, um, you know, it's one of those things like they say you know it's, uh, it's a, it's a kind of movie where, if you want to, you can just like wade into it to your ankles or you can get going in over the top of your head.
Speaker 1:It's that kind of movie. Yeah, exactly, um, I wanted to uh say thanks. We're coming up on five years this June June 25th I think it is. This podcast will be going on for five years and it's been a good run and look forward to keeping it going and it's 250 or something episodes and all kinds of people on the show and it's been a tremendous amount of fun.
Speaker 1:And I want to for the next five, you know, after this next phase, this next chapter, I want to try to be more engaged with the fans of the show and I know that kind of sounds silly fans, whatever you want to call yourself, those who, who subscribe. If you listen regularly, watch on a regular basis, you've subscribed, or whatever. We I would like to know who you are and would like to interact with you say thank you. And this last week, henry Shin, I think, is that I don't know he subscribed. I don't know who Henry Shin is, how do people find you, you know, but anyway, thank you, henry, for subscribing to our youtube channel. Uh, and so, if you're listening, if you're watching, send an email, send. Send an email to scott at scott townsendinfo and just say hey, like the show, hey, hate the show, whatever, interact, send us something and uh, we'll talk back and send you know, say hi, but it'd be fun to have more interaction with the audience. I don't know if fans is too pretentious to say I don't know. I think we're just gonna call you fans. If you're listening to us regularly, I'm gonna call you a fan.
Speaker 1:So also thanks to mom. She donated 40 bucks to the podcast. We were talking about the podcast the other day. She goes here. I want to donate some money, good old mom. Thanks mom for the 40 bucks for uh, and so I'm using that 40 to um pay for the 40 bucks for uh. And so I'm using that $40 to um pay for the subscription to buzzsprout which I use to publish this podcast, and uh, yeah. So, mom, if you're listening, I know you will be eventually. Thanks for that and uh, put it to good use.
Speaker 2:Uh, thank you, Yep, hey, a good use, I think. Yeah, hey, and speaking of mom, yeah, just um, you know when, when dad passed away and she realized she needed to move from the house that we grew up in and down there, she went through exactly this whole process yeah and I don't know if you remember or not, but um, you know she went through a massive um effort to declutter and do exactly what we're talking about, but at the same time, she experienced a lot of personal growth and it was super obvious to me.
Speaker 2:You know, during that time she became much more social, she took much more social risk. She built a social network as a, as a as a kind of recent widower.
Speaker 2:And I think that is a perfect example of what you know we've talked about, of you know kind of letting go of those kind of like past things, decluttering, give your, your, your mind, additional space to move forward, not having all that stuff around and feeling like hopeless about it, and giving you like new energy and freedom to move forward and live your best life going forward. I think she is a you mentioned that like yeah, she's a perfect example of exactly what we've been talking about yeah she went through a lot very, yeah, way to go, mom.
Speaker 1:Very it was very emotional, it was very hard, um, but man, she just uh flipped a switch and just made it happen and yes, she did crazy that's hard to do and some people can't, and some people can't do it kudos and they just stay stuck.
Speaker 1:I'm visualizing right now and this is so hilarious to me, I don't know if you'll find it funny, but here uh, tarzan, lord of the jungle, king of the tarzan. How does he get to the jungle? He swings from vine to vine, so he's got this vine. He reaches out and grabs the other vine and if you don't let go of this vine, you're just stuck. You know, until something, until you, you gotta let go, or you can't move forward, you know, if you let go of this one, then you go back, and if you let go of this one, then you can go forward.
Speaker 2:But if you try to hold on to both, you're just stuck right, and as you swing forward on the next vine, you're really not sure which vine you're going to grab as you swing forward to the next one. You kind of got to improvise as you go. So that's another good metaphor for life. Reminds me of George of the Jungle.
Speaker 1:How about bursting the song there for a minute?
Speaker 2:I forgot about that.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I think we've pretty uh knocked that one in the head, um, anything else I'm.
Speaker 1:This is a huge topic. There's psychologists out there that have, uh, have, a whole profession on just just helping people get through this kind of stuff. The change that takes, the effort that it takes, um, motivation, inspiration, uh, and it's real. You know, decluttering is really hard because of all the emotions, and we've already talked about that, so I'll just shut up. So any last words on the move, any last words on your little journey. You're going on here uh, no, not really.
Speaker 2:Just another thing I learned from a friend, and he's elderly, but he just told me you know those, the things moving forward in your life, they never change. You know when you're in. When you're in, uh, you start wherever you want to start. When you're junior high, you just want to get to high school. When you're in high school, you just want to make the team, whatever the team is you, and then you just want to go to college. You just you can't wait to get married, you can't wait to have kids, you can't wait to get your promotion, you can't wait to do this again, he said.
Speaker 2:He said, you know, as an 80 something year old guy, it's like that process never, ever ends, never, ever ends. And so the key to um, to to happiness and I may, I may have said this before, I can't remember, I told you this before, it may even be on podcasts, but the key to kind of like having joy in your life and and maximizing your happiness is to enjoy the process, even if it's a difficult process. Find ways to enjoy the process, and so you're enjoying life as you go, and it's never something that you never really achieve because you're always looking for the next thing well said, mic drop, so enjoy your process.
Speaker 2:Yep it's not the it's.
Speaker 1:What was that? What did I tell? Tell a hundred Nolan. And they hear this, they'll roll their eyes. And, matthew, when they were here, I was, I was always telling them it's not, it's not the destination, it's the journey.
Speaker 2:Same. Thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right. Well, like I said, get in touch with us. Um, scott, it's got email. Tell us what you think, what you thought about this episode and other episodes, or that you just like the show, or whatever. Just want to hear from you, and so I'm going to make a more concerted effort to be more interactive with, with uh, those of you out there. So we've been townsend. This is scott townsend. Thanks for watching, listening to the scott townsend show. Have a great day, everything's going to be all right, and we'll talk to you later. The Scott Townsend Show is a Dietz-O-Man production. For more episodes, visit the Scott Townsend Show YouTube channel, listen on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. The Scott Townsend Show show.
