The Scott Townsend Show
Conversations, perspectives, and insight from some of the brightest minds, facilitated by everyone's friend, Scott Townsend
The Scott Townsend Show
#212 The Art of Leadership Through Communication and Innovation w/ Liz Draven Hope
Unlock the secrets of impactful leadership with insights from Scott Townsend, who joins us for an enriching conversation led by the astute Liz Draven Hope. Discover how the timeless wisdom of historical figures like Jesus, George Washington, and Abraham Lincoln can transform your leadership approach by emphasizing servant leadership and resilience. Scott shares how these icons, along with modern trailblazers like John Wooden and Walt Disney, demonstrate that "well done is better than well said," providing a blueprint for leaders who want to lead through their actions and not just words.
Explore the art of effective communication and adaptability as we discuss why clarity and understanding various communication styles are vital for leadership success. Scott reveals how the strategic use of checklists can drive organizational excellence, mirroring the precision of aviation and medical fields. Hear firsthand how fostering creativity and avoiding micromanagement can empower teams to innovate and engage more effectively, offering a fresh perspective on achieving remarkable outcomes. This episode is a must-listen for those eager to elevate their leadership game with practical advice and real-world examples.
To contact Liza Draven Hope - elizabeth.hope52@icloud.com
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Welcome to the Scott Townsend Show brought to you by Pizza man Productions.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the Scott Townsend Show. Today's episode is a special one. I'm the one being interviewed by the incredibly talented Liz Draven Hope, and let me tell you she's wicked smart. Liz is in her first year of a master's program at Oklahoma Wesleyan University. She earned her degree in pre-physical therapy and when she's not hitting the books, she's the assistant coach for the indoor and beach volleyball team there at the school. Liz approached me with this idea to be interviewed for a paper she's writing for the advanced leadership theory class. She needed someone to interview about leadership and for some reason not sure why she picked me, but I was more than happy to help. So I suggested we do the interview over Zoom so I could turn the interview into a podcast episode, and Liz was gracious enough to run with the idea. Given Liz's background and future goals, our conversation naturally touches on sports, the medical field, physical therapy and leadership lessons in those areas. I hope you enjoy this thought-provoking discussion with the brilliant Liz Draven Hope. Yeah, so I'm recording now.
Speaker 3:Okay, sounds great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'll do some intros and stuff on my podcast later, so we can just jump into it. Okay podcast later, so we can just jump into it, okay. Um so, elizabeth drake, hope. Welcome to the scott. Huh, oh, draven, not drake, that's dietrich's middle name, dietrich's drake draven. Yeah, yeah, great middle name. So yeah, welcome to the. So what do we got? What do you got going here? So what are we?
Speaker 3:doing.
Speaker 2:What's the plan?
Speaker 3:I'm going to interview you for my paper. This paper I have to write for my leadership class. Okay, and I feel like you fit the agenda.
Speaker 2:Oh, that could be scary.
Speaker 3:It's not, it's well, uh, fire away, all right well all right. The first question who is the person who has had the most profound impact on you as a leader and or your leadership?
Speaker 2:I'd have to say my dad to start with, because I just kind of do things the way he did, you know, and uh that always worked out well for me, so that's good. The other person that might be a good uh influence, uh from a leadership standpoint, is jesus, because of his leadership, uh, servant leader example the ultimate george washington oh interesting yeah, he's really a great guy.
Speaker 2:Uh uh. Revolutionary war um, he was a great uh great warrior and great statesman. Uh had a lot uh coming at him when the united states were trying to form and he was just uh, he was just his own guy, you know and everybody respected him and he demanded a lot from people and and they they appreciated that. So right there's others, I guess, but those would be some of the top three okay, abraham lincoln's another one oh.
Speaker 2:You know, all these people that you and I are talking about right now overcame extreme adversity. There's no leader that doesn't, that's exempt, so there's everybody. You point to any leader and you'll point to a story of adversity and overcoming and uh being able to uh lead, point people in the right direction you know, or just a direction.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Doesn't have to be right, but yeah.
Speaker 3:All right. Well then you're ready for the next one.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 3:Why and how did this person impact your life? Why and how did this person impact your life? Why and how? So it's really just one person we're talking about, which, I mean, if you want to go ahead and say all three, that's yeah, that'd be great too well from my dad, for example, led by example by example wasn't hypocritical about anything.
Speaker 2:Really, yeah, he meant what he said and he said what he meant. He was a man of few words and didn't say a lot, but when he did it was probably worth listening to. It was probably worth listening to. So there's a. He was a very calm individual.
Speaker 2:And I think, I think I kind of get that from him. I'm not boisterous and thumping my chest, everything has to be my way, but I think that's what I get from him from the example of jesus. That's just a leader, a servant leader, that's just somebody who, for myself, tries to emulate, um, somebody who is self uh, selfless, uh, human, humble, and puts other people first before themselves and, once again, probably is a man of few words, but when he spoke, people tend to listen yeah uh, george washington was also a man of few words, was not one to, was not very verbose.
Speaker 2:He did do a lot of letter writing. But these, all these guys were more interested in taking action and getting people not to be a leader. It was almost like they were a leader by default. They didn't set out to be the leader. It's just the way it was and people gravitate to that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:If you're John Wooden or Walt Disney or Lee Cockrell another one of my heroes Walt Disney or Lee Cockrell another one of my heroes. Walt Disney and Lee Cockrell. John Wooden yeah, that too these guys are. You know, they don't spend a lot of time talking. Benjamin Franklin said well said is better than no. No, I'm sorry. He said well done is better than no. No, I'm sorry. He said well done is better than well said. So I kind of like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've never. I don't think I've ever heard that before. Sounds like you've got a. Uh, like there's a common factor in between everybody.
Speaker 2:Right, I hadn't really ever thought about that before.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're saying it out loud. There's definitely a common factor, but it's a good, a good trait to have as a leader. I think everyone should be like that, but sadly we can't all. It's not a perfect world. We yeah right, yeah, all right, you ready for the next one? I'm ready for the next one. Hit me, all right, we, yeah Right, yeah, all right. You ready for the next one?
Speaker 2:I'm ready for the next one. Hit me.
Speaker 3:All right. Which leaders do you admire and why I feel like this kind of is similar.
Speaker 2:Right, I think I've already answered that one. Why do I admire it? Say it again, ask it again.
Speaker 3:Which leaders do you most admire, and why?
Speaker 2:Well, the three, four or five that I've mentioned up to this point were just people who got things done and people were drawn to that kind of infectious enthusiasm, infectious uh, uh enthusiasm. You know, uh, walt Disney, starting off, uh, with uh the black and white cartoons and then made the first color animated movie, snow White. Uh, a lot of artists, a lot of people wanted to. You know, eventually, myself included, wanted to work for the Disney company, just because it's such a cool company, you know, and they did great, cool things. And I got the opportunity to work for him after I graduated, well, when I was in college, and then after I graduated from college.
Speaker 2:But all these, all these people draw people to themselves because they're doing great things. They're doing the key word there is doing great things and people, a lot of people don't live a purpose-driven life, so they follow somebody who does have a purpose and they uh gravitate towards those kinds of people. And so, if you want to be a good leader, you need to be a good doer and uh put others first, you know, and uh, not a lot of, not a lot of talk yeah, I just thought jesus ties in.
Speaker 2:It definitely ties into that right yeah yeah, he did a lot of great things and he just walked around saying, hey, come, follow me, do this, you know. And then he would miracles, miracles, miracles. And he didn't say, hey, now watch me, you know, watch this, I'm going to do this. He just did it. You know, he didn't boast, he didn't right, and probably one person in history that had every reason to boast.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know, yeah the the one person who you know he shows reason to boast. I mean, you know, the one person who shows up on Earth. You're going to figure he should have the big announcement and stars in the sky that spell out a savior is born. But no, it's just a little bitty kid in a little bitty place, in a little bitty manger, because nobody else would let him in. Very inauspicious, inauspicious, but that's just the way. That's just the way he did things.
Speaker 3:That's great all right, you ready for the next one?
Speaker 2:I'm ready for the next one all right.
Speaker 3:What are the most important decisions you make as a leader in your organization? All right, you ready for the next one.
Speaker 2:I'm ready for the next one.
Speaker 3:All right, what are the most?
Speaker 2:important decisions you make as a leader in your organization. The decision to communicate. Yeah, that's a good one. There's a lot of things that happen and there's a lot of.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of moving parts, yeah, and we get so busy that we forget to visit with our teams, our staff, our colleagues, uh, to talk about what needs to happen. And then, and then we don't, and then other people uh, and then, and then your team doesn't execute, and then you get irritated because what you expected didn't happen. And so what's wrong with them? Well, the thing that's wrong is with you. You didn't communicate this properly and you have to be as a leader. To be a successful leader, I really think you have to be crystal clear, with your expectations crystal clear, and that way the person walks away from you going. I totally understand exactly what she wants me to do. And you have to approach a different people in different ways. Some people will get it right off the bat, and sometimes some people need to be told a different way, and so, as a leader, you're kind of a chameleon. You, you study people and how to get the most out of your people, and some people are very sensitive. You just barely say something and they totally get it.
Speaker 2:And then other people you know, maybe a knucklehead, and they need to say it like three or four different ways, you know, and then they get it. But ultimately it's up to the leader to come up with crystal clear communication. Right? If you're wondering why things aren't getting done, just look at yourself. It'll be because you probably didn't, uh, communicate well enough. You know, in advertising they say you've got to say you know a commercial.
Speaker 2:People don't hear your commercial until like the seventh or eighth time that they hear it yeah so, just when you know your mom said, maybe growing up, how many times I have to tell you to blah, blah, blah. That's exactly right that you have to say it over and over and over and over, and finally it starts sinking in this, this is really, this is really serious, this is really. She really means it. You know, I'm getting it.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, as a leader, just when you get tired of saying something, just when you're exhausted, thinking these people are just not hearing me, when you get to that point, then they're starting to hear you.
Speaker 3:so you have to really have patience and dig in and and reinforce your message over and over and over and over and over and uh yeah, that's really good advice actually, because with my with coaching it's it seemed like every time that I would try to say something, nobody would respond, and that was so frustrating, so frustrating to me and I would have to like. I was like how do I need to scream on the top of my lungs for somebody to hear me? But, yeah, that's good advice. I'm definitely going to take that because, um, I definitely struggle with that.
Speaker 2:So my dad used to say uh, loud voice, weak point I, I honestly agree with that.
Speaker 3:I it's just like I feel like you. You don't need to yell to get your point across at all as a matter of fact.
Speaker 2:As a matter of fact, the lower your voice and the quieter you are, then people have to lean in to hear what you're saying, and so you command more of their attention by speaking softer. Like tate roosevelt said, speak softly and carry a big stick that's.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I really like that, I really like that, I really like that, all right.
Speaker 2:What approaches do you use to ensure excellence?
Speaker 3:remains in ongoing focus organizationally. Say that again. What approaches do?
Speaker 2:you use to ensure excellence remains an ongoing focus. Organizationally, I'm a big believer in checklists yep every morning. You know when you come to work or like this book. Can I get this book out? I just read this book not too long ago by a surgeon the checklist manifesto oh and uh, it's he. Basically, in a nutshell, they came up with checklists that doctor surgeons can use to make sure that the surgery goes well, that people live through the surgery and that minimizes mistakes being made.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:The other thing is airline pilots they have a checklist after checklist. After they have a checklist for starting the plane up, they have a checklist for taking off. They have a checklist for once. They get up to whatever you know altitude and then, if an emergency situation comes up, they've got a checklist for that. Get up to whatever you know altitude and then, if an emergency situation comes up, they've got a checklist for that that they go through. Yeah, why do we have these checklists?
Speaker 2:because you want to ensure that you're, uh, executing properly and you don't forget one of the steps that you need to take interesting so yeah, um, that's why at work sometimes they'll have opening or closing procedures and a checklist to make sure that everybody remembers, because everybody's different. You're going to remember something and I'll forget something right, but if we're both looking at the same checklist, I can see what you're going to do. I can see what I'm going to do. At the end of the shift, we can see looks like everything got done, or oops, we missed one here, so we need to check this one off and then we're good yeah so, um, so checklists really uh, help, help with success, making sure that you don't overlook something, and not only overlook something, but that you excel at what you're doing.
Speaker 2:Right, and if, unfortunately, people think, well, an airline pilot, a surgeon, of course they're going to have checklists. They don't want to leave a scalpel inside of the incision, or you don't want to forget that your landing gear's down or you know whatever, but you know wherever you work. That's important to you. So when you have a morning routine, it might be a good idea to write down a checklist. If you're leading a team, it's a good idea to write down a checklist of what needs to be done consistently, so that you don't forget anything.
Speaker 3:So is it like just with that, is it like an everyday goal kind of checklist like that, or just I guess not in overtime, like in, because I'm looking at it like like a sports team, like my volleyball team. Would I write a checklist for goals that day or would I do it as like an overtime?
Speaker 2:I think you would do it for the day and over time. For example, athletes. Okay, so today, well, you know, today's the most important part. It's today. We are not tomorrow. Yesterday is already come and gone. So what are we going to do today? So I want to make sure, as a coach, that you guys eat right. So here's a checklist for what you're supposed to be eating today, how much water you're supposed to be drinking? Okay, here's a checklist for your fitness routine. Let's make sure that you got all the weights in, you've got all the aerobic, all the stuff. Now, uh, checklist how much sleep did you get last night? You're supposed to get eight hours of sleep. Did you get eight hours of sleep? Or did you get seven hours of sleep? Whatever it is, you know? Yeah, so these kind of things you look at every day and if people are being truthful, you can see well, betty's only getting five hours of sleep. That might explain why she's not up to par. Or nancy is not eating, getting all the nutrition that she needs.
Speaker 2:That's why her muscles are not developing like all everybody else yeah so these checklists give the coach and the assistant coach staff and everybody something to look at to make sure that the team is on point.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:So then, when it comes time to play the game, I mean you, both teams come to the field to win. You want to win, the coach on the other side of the field wants to win. So who's?
Speaker 3:going to win Right. It's the person with the best processes.
Speaker 2:Whichever coach has the best process is going to win nine times out of ten. So if you're, if you're practicing at a high level of efficiency and effectiveness versus the other coach that doesn't quite have it down, you know you're going to be the one that winds up on top, because your people get on the field and they just execute and they don't have to think about it anymore right it's just muscle memory, you know yeah yeah, it's teamwork, it's knowing where each, everybody.
Speaker 2:You know the people to the right and to the left of me. So to do that, you practice, and in practicing, like john wooden, you know he'd start off with showing you know, this is how you tie your shoes. You know something as basic as that, but I think at the uh. Basic as that, but I think at the uh, and. And. So then, when the day comes to a close, you can look over and say, well, we got this done, we got this done, we got this done, we got this done, we got this done. Uh, it looks like we ticked all the boxes, so tomorrow let's do it again, you know yeah, yeah and it can get kind of boring.
Speaker 3:But right, right. What was the name of that book?
Speaker 2:I'm gonna write it down yeah, this is the checklist manifesto by atul gawanda.
Speaker 3:It's a-t-u-l-g-a-w-a-n-d-e okay, all right, I'm gonna keep that for myself. Yeah, for that for myself heck yeah all right. Next question how is creativity and innovation fostered in your organization?
Speaker 2:That comes through when you don't micromanage.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, liz, here's your task for today. You're going to do X. I need you to do whatever. Do you understand what I'm telling you? Yes, you need to do this by this time, on this piece of paper, in this certain way, whatever yeah or not, not in a certain way, but here's what needs to be done.
Speaker 2:The goal is to make sure that we have a clear understanding of how many widgets we have. Okay, so I'm not going to tell you how to do it. I'm not going to tell you how to count. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to tell you how to do it. I'm not going to tell you how to count. I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to follow you around now. I might follow you around on the uh for like one or two minutes to make sure that if you have any questions, I'm there to answer.
Speaker 3:Okay, I see.
Speaker 2:But after that it's up to you.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I've hired a smart woman. That's why you're working for me right so because you're smart and creative and innovative, you use your creativity and innovation to figure out how's the best way to get these widgets counted yeah as quickly and as efficiently as possible.
Speaker 2:Your approach might be one way, jimmy, your colleague might do it a totally different way, but as long as it gets done within the time frame, I don't care right and you don't have somebody looking over your shoulder trying to tell you how to do stuff and so, and so you get to uh, you get to apply, create a you know a creative process, like liz is going to say. So what's the fastest way to count these widgets? You know they're all over the factory. Yeah, what's the? Oh, that's a great cat yeah what's the cat's name?
Speaker 2:his name is snoop snoop yeah so you know you're, uh, you're going to uh, let's say you're going to try to figure out the fastest way to make count these things. Jimmy might come along and say the same thing, but he's going to come up with a totally different way than you would. And what would really be cool is if I got you two together afterwards and you guys share notes and then we find out between you and jimmy we've come up with an even faster way to count these widgets right creativity, innovation. We get better, stronger, faster blah blah blah, boom boom
Speaker 2:boom everybody's making money yeah, uh-huh, all right.
Speaker 3:What is one characteristic that you believe every leader should possess?
Speaker 2:confidence, humility um and selflessness.
Speaker 3:I like this.
Speaker 2:If I'm not confident, then you're going to pick up on that immediately and you're not going to feel comfortable taking instruction from me, right, and you're going to feel awkward. It's going to be weird for everybody. Humility, because there's nothing worse than following somebody who wants to be the leader, following the person that wants to be the boss.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Those guys, gals, they kind of rub you the wrong way, you know, because they want to be in charge, they want to be large and in charge. They kind of rub you the wrong way, you know, cause they want to be in charge, they want to be large and in charge, and yeah, and it's kind of it kind of rubs your fur the wrong way. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and if I had a leader like that, I don't think I'd enjoy my job.
Speaker 2:Right, a lot of people, a lot of people do.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's good to be humble and realize that you're no better than anybody else. Everybody puts their pants on one leg at a time.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Same way as everybody else. Selflessness meaning Okay. So I've got this job I need to do and Liz is on my team. I got Liz and Betty and Jimmy and all these people. Let's say we got 10 people on the team. If I'm, if I'm going to, if we're going to be successful, if I'm going to be successful at my job, you guys need to be successful. Be successful at my job.
Speaker 3:You guys need to be successful at your job.
Speaker 2:And when you're successful. It's only then that I'm successful.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:So it's incumbent upon me to make sure that I remove all the hurdles out of your way. Move all the hurdles out of your way, that I, that I help you do the job you want, that you you know to help you do the kind of job that you want to do, because you're a hired right and you're a motivated employee. So I just need to get out of the way and if.
Speaker 2:Liz says you know what? There's this, there's this thing, there's this process. That's it's really stupid and it's really slowing us all down. Then it's up to me to get rid of it.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:It's not up to me to come up with all the ideas. There's one of me and there's 10 of you guys, so there should be 10 times the ideas coming from you know than me.
Speaker 2:Yeah me, yeah. So, in the selfless, I need to see you guys be successful and I need to. I need to invest in you and Jimmy and Betty and Nancy on my team to make sure that they are as successful as possible because really, um, I need to get you promoted, I need to get Jimmy promoted to get you promoted. I need to get Jimmy promoted and you know the, the non-confident leader will keep you suppressed because they want to be the ones that are successful. They want to be the ones that get promoted and they don't want you, they don't really care about you or you know whatever.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But the thing is, if you're, if my team gets promoted and, like, all these people are just flying out of my department because they're so good, my management staff's gonna look at me and go dang Scott, what are you doing over there? You know? I mean, you know how to. You know how to develop champions yeah so we're gonna put you in another position over more people, because we want more champions.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's where selflessness, putting others first and helping them be the best person they can be, the best employee that they can be yeah, the best person they can be, the best employee that they can be.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think um something that I would say I think every leader should have is discipline in themselves, because if you can't control yourself, you can't control your team or organization or whatever. Yada, yada, even in the small things, it's like if your alarm goes off, don't be dead for an hour. You know which I do? Do that?
Speaker 3:I, yes, I'm red-handed, but right it's something I don't know like if I want to say this from personal experience if you're coaching, if you're going to tell a player, hey, like I'm not playing you because of this reason, then don't put her in. That's still discipline on yourself. You can't just put her in the next game. I could go on and on and on about this, but I think that's one that I think honestly, everybody, everybody should have, because then you won't be respected if you don't discipline yourself and if you go against what you said yeah if you don't hold firm to your word and you know I told you you weren't going to play and so don't uh, quit bugging me about playing because you're not playing.
Speaker 2:But if you give in, then they know they've got one on you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:Then they'll try harder next time?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree, I agree. All right, what is the Achilles heel of most leaders and what can be done to overcome this?
Speaker 2:It's thinking that they can do it all.
Speaker 3:That's a good one.
Speaker 2:When they got to remember that we can't do any of this without everybody on the team.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:The Achilles heel, I think, goes back to communication. Communication is so huge.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:In a marriage, in a relationship, on a team, in an organization, in a nonprofit, if you don't communicate? And then you start wondering why everybody is such an idiot, why is everybody not doing their jobs? Why is why is it always up to me? Why do I always have to be? You know what is wrong with them? Do they not understand how important this is to me or to the organization? Well, the answer is no, they don't because you haven't clearly communicated.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So you can start off communicating very well through emails and personal, but then you get busy and you start to assume that people know what to do because they'll talk to each other. You know, and it's constant talk about discipline. It's a constant effort to communicate clearly and set clear expectations right there's not a day that goes by that you can't get away with not doing that yeah and so you, you fall into thinking everybody can do.
Speaker 2:It, knows it, I've I've already said it a hundred times, you know. And so then you go off doing your own little thing, and then you turn around and look and nobody's following you and those that are following, following or doing all the wrong things. How'd this happen? You know? Well, I hate to tell you, but just look in the mirror now. If those, if there's people on your team I keep saying that but if you, if you do have people that are not executing, that are not, uh, you have been crystal clear and and you haven't, uh, and they're not performing, you you know those people really need to leave.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2:That's the hard part of the job, probably the hardest part of the job, but you have to do it because it doesn't help the other team. I mean, it doesn't help the rest of your team.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:As a matter of fact, you show disrespect to your team when you keep the ones that aren't performing on the team. So then other people think well, I can be on the team and I'll perform either, because she's not going to get rid of them.
Speaker 3:You know, yeah, it's pretty obvious.
Speaker 2:So now we're all going to suck and we're not going to win any games, because but if we see that Liz is really serious about this and she's she's only going to keep the top performers on the team Not that she doesn't like the people that don't perform- that has nothing to do with it.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's just that, for whatever reason, you know, we've worked with you, blah, blah, blah. It's not working out. You can't be on the team anymore. I'll write you letters of recommendations and I'll try to help you. You know whatever, but my mandate is to win games, and so I need people on my team that know how to win. So yeah my two cents there.
Speaker 3:I like that, all right. What do you look for in future leaders?
Speaker 2:People that don't want to be a leader.
Speaker 3:Elaborate.
Speaker 2:Like I said earlier, if you find somebody that's just chomping at the bit to be the boss, that ain't the guy or gal I want to be around, because they'll step all over everybody trying to promote themselves and they forget. It's not about you, it's about us, it's about the team. But if you got somebody who's, like I said, humble and selfless and confident, Selfless and confident. Now I got somebody I can work with.
Speaker 3:Right, right.
Speaker 2:Easy as that.
Speaker 3:Easy as that. Okay, what makes for a poor leader?
Speaker 2:It's all the stuff that we haven't said. It's a poor leader is not confident. They don't communicate, they're all only concerned with themselves. It's just a. It's just a crap show.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's just a.
Speaker 2:it's just a crap show, yeah yeah, it's uh, and everybody's miserable and everybody's trying to get out of that department. They're not getting anything out of it. They're not being rewarded. Uh, they're not being encouraged and recognized. Um, the leader is just all about themselves and putting on a fake smile when the big boss walks through and everybody can see it, you know yeah, as soon as the big boss leaves, they go back to their little sniveling ways and everybody can see right through it.
Speaker 3:So that's my answer there I'd say it's also leaders who abuse their power yeah, that's, that's.
Speaker 2:That goes back to the lack of confidence. They have to overcompensate. So they're not confident, so they think that they have to really thump their chest and um put people in their place, you know, and they gotta, they gotta show who's boss right, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah um?
Speaker 3:what is the biggest challenge facing leaders today?
Speaker 2:that's a toughie, I'm gonna say. It's always been the same thing since the beginning of time. Um, you know, someone said this is a great place to work. If only if it weren't for all the people that work here. You know uh it's.
Speaker 2:The biggest challenge is is the people, and whether it's 1920 or 1820 or 2020, whether you're you got a horse and buggy or a model t or a 63 bellaire or a 2024 tesla, regardless of the technology, regardless of the time, the people pretty much are all the same and people are the challenge and so you have to be a good uh, a good study of people and uh know what, know what uh how to encourage, how to influence people yeah for good and to get help.
Speaker 2:If you hire right, you don't have to hire. Like I said, you don't have to hire motivated people. You just try to get out of their way, stay out of their way and let them do their thing yeah but there are things that will discourage them, or, and so you have to come along and encourage them, and yeah prop them up every once in a while and give them kudos, and but henry ford had to deal with that, you know right um, any leader, churchill, lincoln, it's all.
Speaker 2:It's all pretty much the same thing. It's the people, and people haven't changed that much.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've never really thought about that actually.
Speaker 2:Yeah, If you met a girl from 1776 at your age, she's going to be concerned about the same things that you or your friends might be.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:Am I going to get get married a date, or am I to this or am I to that? I'm not pretty enough, and you know it's. It's always been that, that way, same with guys, you know yeah, yeah it's just the clothes are changed, technology around us has changed, but our desires and our what we think about have pretty much stayed the same right right so that's the biggest challenge for leaders just to know how to deal with uh, the people know not how to deal with, and that's a bad way of saying it.
Speaker 2:Know how to work with their people to so that their people can do the best job possible hmm, yeah, I never really thought of that.
Speaker 3:I would try to think of something technical, but I like that answer.
Speaker 2:Pretty simple really.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that really is what was your most significant leadership mistake.
Speaker 2:I made fun of somebody one time, just horsing around and they weren't there. But their colleagues told them what I did and he didn't like that very much.
Speaker 3:Oh, no, yikes.
Speaker 2:Felt bad about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That was stupid.
Speaker 3:I mean, we all do stupid things. That's how I look at it.
Speaker 2:I'm the king of doing stupid.
Speaker 3:Are you guys? Did you guys know?
Speaker 2:What am I trying to say? Like were you guys cool after that a little bit.
Speaker 3:I mean it took a while, yeah, cool. Now, okay, what advice would you give to a young up-and-coming leader who wanted to eventually become an executive leader?
Speaker 2:don't worry about becoming an executive leader. I don't even know what executive leader means. Um, either you are, you aren't a leader. Um, uh, you might want you, uh. So focus, focus on your influence on people around you and know that people are watching you and, and, and, and you hope that you influence them in a good way. Um, they're gonna. You know, like you said, if you uh, if you're doing things right, let's say, if you show up for work and you're you're you're not like super dressed up, but you know you dress nice and take care of yourself and the other if you'll notice, over time, others are going to start doing that too.
Speaker 2:So you're kind of leading in that direction right or if you're the person at work that doesn't bad mouth the boss and doesn't use foul language and you've always got a great attitude. People are going to gravitate towards that right and uh, they want to be like that. They don't know, they do, but you know, if you model that type of behavior, everybody likes that. Nobody likes a arguing.
Speaker 2:Uh never has anything good to say about anybody right, yeah, the debbie downers yeah, debbie downers, yeah, yeah and so, uh, you know, as you go through life, and you've got your school, you've got your papers, that you turn in your homework and all this stuff um, as a leader, you, you especially when you're working in groups, uh, if you're the one who knows how to kind of get the group together, get the group to talk, get the group to and then delegate specific tasks to the group, help facilitate that. That's. That's great practice for corporate work or medical field. Yeah, because you need the, you need, you need people around you to be successful. This group needs to be.
Speaker 2:If we want to get a on this paper, this group thing, we need to put a effort, you know yeah if we're in a physical therapy clinic and everybody's doing great except for one that's just really screwing up, um, that's, that's not too great. And so, uh, you try to emulate, you try to show, you try to model the type of behavior that you expect. You show up on time, you get your paper paperwork done on time, you get your patient load taken care of, and the physical therapy room is always clean and everything's sanitized, you know, and the reception receptionist is super cool. Uh, it's all, that's all expectation. And so you as the doctor, you as the lead there, or or you're, you might be one of the interns or somebody, but because you do such a great job and you always show up on time with a great attitude and do a good job, then when your internship's over with, then they're going to say hey, you know what?
Speaker 2:What can I want you to stick around? We kind of like that yeah so you just kind of lead your way into that kind of thing okay, what is?
Speaker 3:what is the one behavior or trait that you have seen derail more leaders careers? Probably inappropriate behavior yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 2:That's a good one politicians, management yep, there's a lot of people that, uh, that kind of thing can happen and bad decisions. You don't think anybody's going to know or no one's going to catch on, but someone always does eventually yeah so it's always a good stay above board and and uh, especially the higher up you go. When they say you know, they say the higher up you go, more of your ass you show.
Speaker 2:So everybody can see you know everybody's gunning for you yeah, so don't give them an excuse to to uh or have a reason for bringing it down yeah, especially when you can control that right, yeah, yeah, especially when you can. But that's Right. Yeah, yeah, especially when you can. But that's the sad thing, you can't control. But just, you know a lot of people don't. Yeah, yeah that is unfortunately, get your hand slapped, for you know stupid stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, all right, I have two more questions, okay okay all right. What is your greatest regret, as it applies to leadership?
Speaker 2:caring too much about what other people think oh, that's a good one. That's a good one yeah, it really doesn't matter what they think you've got a job to do and, uh, you just need to get it done, not be a jerk about it. You know, think you've got a job to do and, uh, you just need to get it done, not be a jerk about it, you know, but this is what we got to do yeah sometimes you, sometimes I worry too much about whether people are going to think about this, you know, are they going to think I'm mean, or they don't agree with me, or what?
Speaker 2:it doesn't matter, it just doesn't right, yeah at home, at work with your friends, it doesn't matter anywhere yeah that's too often we. What are they going to think if I implement this change into their volleyball team? What are they going to think about if I change this thing up, you know? Then they're all going to say, oh, you know, whatever. Yeah, um, don't worry about it, just execute and don't worry about what other people think. They're probably not thinking about you anyway right?
Speaker 3:yeah, that's. That is one thing that I had trouble with in coaching and because I care too much, I didn't have confidence in what I was doing. But as time goes on, as I'm learning more about coaching and stuff, someone's going to talk about you. You can't control that. There's going to be at least one person that doesn't like you. It doesn't matter. You can't do nothing about it at all, you just have to be for you and your team. And yeah, you want.
Speaker 2:There's going to be one complainer and sometimes that person needs to just move on down the road exactly yeah.
Speaker 3:So yeah, I like that, all right. Last question if you had to do it all over again, what would you differently and why?
Speaker 2:I would have been more purposeful in my employment, starting at a young age. But once again, I cared too much about what other people think. Um, I didn't really have a plan, a purpose at a young age and so I just kind of went from. It's like I was riding a train and when the train would stop I'd get off and jump on the next train and wherever that went, that's where I went right. Then it would stop, I'd get off. There's another train, I'll get on it. We'll see where this one goes. I I would. I would be more purposeful. Yeah, I wanted to be a movie director when I was younger uh always wanted to make movies.
Speaker 2:I made movies in high school, I was a film major at ku my first year, um. And then I went to oklahoma state and got too interested in partying and having a good time with friends and uh, kind of, from then on it just kind of everything just kind of and kind of. From then on it just kind of everything just kind of not spun out of control. But, um, I lost my focus purpose and uh, now that I'm on this side of life looking back on it, I'm kind of wishing I wish I'd stuck with that yeah or stuck with something one thing and just do really well at it, you know what did you um major in?
Speaker 3:journalism oh cool, I like that, that's fun yep yeah, well, that's all the questions I got.
Speaker 2:Well, good, well, I hope that helped.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, for sure I love, I love talking about leadership.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a lot of fun. So for Liz Draven Hope, this is Scott Townsend. Thanks for watching and listening to the Scott Townsend show. Have a great day. Everything's going to be all right.
Speaker 1:And we'll talk to you later. The scott townsend show is a Dietz-O-Man production. For more episodes, visit the Scott Townsend Show YouTube channel, listen on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows you.
