Valerie Cockerell and Her New Book, MANAGE LIKE A MOTHER

Discover the unexpected parallels between nurturing a child and nurturing a team as I sit down with Valerie Cockrell, a business hospitality expert and author of "Managed Like a Mother." Valerie's illustrious career, marked by her transitions from Epcot to Disneyland Paris, has given her a unique vantage point on the symbiotic relationship between motherhood and leadership. Her captivating stories reveal how the intuitive skills of a mother can be a game-changer in the boardroom. Tune in for a personal and professional narrative that intertwines Valerie's Disney journey, complete with a romantic twist, with the profound lessons she imparts in her book.

Our conversation with Valerie Cockrell dives into the minute, yet powerful, actions that shape great leaders. We exchange strategies for fostering growth, from the art of giving feedback to encouraging initiative, pulling from the wisdom of both household management and corporate governance. Valerie and I shed light on how effective communication is not just about what we say, but how we make others feel valued and heard. Implement these actionable tips to cultivate a sense of trust and collaboration within your team, and watch the transformative ripple effect on your work environment.

As we wrap up, the spotlight turns to the undeniable impact women have on leadership, challenging historical norms and bringing a fresh dynamic to teams. Valerie's poignant insights, backed by significant research, celebrate the heightened collective intelligence found in groups with higher female representation. Through engaging discussion, we explore the harmonious blending of masculine and feminine strengths, forging ahead to a leadership landscape that resonates with all generations. Valerie's initiative to collect maternal wisdom becomes a testament to the enduring legacy of women's influence, making this episode a must-listen for anyone looking to enrich their leadership toolkit with authenticity and purpose.

Chapters

• 0:00 Leadership Lessons From Motherhood
• 15:35 Effective Communication and Trust in Leadership
• 27:58 Feedback and Influence in Leadership
• 38:34 The Impact of Women in Leadership

Transcript

Scott Townsend: 0:00

Welcome to the Scott Townsend Show brought to you by Pizza man Productions. Hey, this is Scott Townsend. Welcome back to the Scott Townsend Show. Today I have with me special guest Valerie Cockrell. Valerie is from France. She got her degree in business hospitality there, went on to I believe it was Epcot in 87,88. Is that right?

Valerie Cockerell: 0:28

That's right, you did your research.

Scott Townsend: 0:30

Yeah, that was the same summer that I started at the Magic Kingdom and during the Walt Disney World College program, summer of 88. So, anyway, yeah, so that's where you came to, that's how you got introduced to Disney, I guess. And then you went back to Europe and then or France, I should say worked at the Disneyland Paris merchandising buyer. You've had experience in retail management at Walt Disney World with the Disney Cruise Line, epcot and the downtown Disney, and she met her husband there at Disney World. Both of them worked for the Disney Company, have traveled back and forth, I guess. Both of you went back to Disneyland Paris to help open that up, and they have three great kids. And today the reason why we're here is because, well, and I've had her husband on twice, dan, and this was his book How's the Culture in your Kingdom, and now her book Managed Like a Mother. So it's a great title and I've just finished reading it. And so here we are, we're going to talk about it. Valerie, how you doing.

Valerie Cockerell: 1:50

I am doing great. Thank you, Scott, for having me and thank you for this introduction. I'm thoroughly impressed. You did your research and I guess you said it all, so I have nothing to add.

Scott Townsend: 2:02

The first question I always ask everybody is what you have for breakfast this morning.

Valerie Cockerell: 2:08

Oh my, you know French people we're not really into breakfast, but I'm trying to start the day healthy way. So I actually have this big smoothie with a mixture of fruits, you know, bananas, apples, and then I'm throwing some kale and almonds and all this good stuff. So that's it, that in my coffee, and I'm good to go at least until noon and then. And then they all goes downhill after that.

Scott Townsend: 2:37

Oh man, I love all of that, except for the kale. I think I could do without the kale, but other than that everything else sounded great and I have to excuse myself ahead of time kind of got a little sinus something going on. So if I can get through this without sneezing and coughing, that'll be great. So sorry about that. Let's talk about the book Manage like a mother. I've got some questions here that I want to just kind of go through. Where did the idea start off with that? Where did the idea come from? Manage like a mother?

Valerie Cockerell: 3:10

Well, a couple of things really. Um. First of all, I grew up hearing my mom always say I wish I was 20 and I knew what I know now, and I used to roll my eyes right and go, ok, here she goes again. And then I'm on the other side of 15 now and I feel exactly like she does. And, by the way, my mom is 91 and she lives in France and she still says I wish I was 20 and I knew what I know. In fact, now I think she says I wish I was 40 and I knew what I know now. So I you know.

Valerie Cockerell: 3:41

It kind of dawn on me that obviously we all acquire experience and we learn a lot of things over the course of our lives and unfortunately we can't hit the rewind button. I'm not sure if I can go over again, but I figured, if I can pass this on to maybe younger people, younger professionals, who can learn from me instead of having to learn it the hard way, why not? And then, as you mentioned earlier, my father-in-law worked for Disney and he always talked about how his mother has been tremendously influential in his life and made him the leader he is today, and he talked about this at length, and I remember telling him he should write a book about this and he said well, you know, I'm not a mother and it would be from the perspective of a child, so. And so that was the second thing. And the third thing is, you know, several times over the course of my career I stopped working and to raise my kids and then went back to Disney, and every time I went back, like most women, I had doubts, thinking am I still relevant? Do I still have the right skills to be a leader? And then one day I connected the two. I said, you know, being a great leader, being a leader requires the same thing that I'll require other mother when she raises a kid. So that's when the connection happened.

Valerie Cockerell: 5:04

And then I thought this is such a simple idea. How come nobody ever thought of it before? Because it's a very, you know, simple concept. And, by the way, the book is not meant to bring some brand new ideas that will bring about a revolution of your leadership approach.

Valerie Cockerell: 5:25

And it is very deliberate because, for me, I think we tend to over complicate things and sometimes the best way to keep your head above water and the best way to survive is just to take care of basics. So this is a book about basic principles that, frankly, if you take care of those things, if you train people, recognize you know, provide them feedback, develop them, encourage them you know all of this good stuff and communicate properly, if you take all this, 90% of your leadership job is done and it will be done well. So that, for all these reasons, I'm like, okay, let's just do something simple here that people can go back to and be reminded of those very small yet impactful things you can do in your life to be a better leader. And voila, as we say in French, you know that's. That's how the book came about.

Scott Townsend: 6:22

So that goes to my next question was why compare leadership to what moms or mothers do? I think you just answered that question.

Valerie Cockerell: 6:31

Well, and there's another motivation also, because I think deep inside of me and I don't think it transpires that well in the book, and maybe you know like I guess, like most writers once you've come the umbilical cord and you've sent it out to the publisher, you start thinking, oh, I wish I'd said this, so I wish I had developed this theme more. And one of the things in my book that I keep talking about and it's not in the book is the fact that for me, it's, you know, that lack of confidence that a lot of women have when they go to the workplace, and the fact also that a lot of women, when you look at the resume, there's this gap of five years or 10 years which they took time off to raise their kids, and they don't claim it. They kind of hide this like it's something you should not be advocating, because people think you're probably staying in home and painting your nails. And let me tell you, I think raising kids really prepares you to be a leader, and if you can raise, you know children successfully, if you can take care of, you know newborns and then address the temper tantrums of a toddler and then address the mood swings of a teenager, and you've survived all this. You can be a good leader and you have that in you and I think in that way, I think women are uniquely prepared to be great leaders.

Valerie Cockerell: 7:50

I'm not saying that. Well, two things. I'm not saying that woman are the only one raising the kids Okay. However, I think people all generation you know, the most influential person raising us was probably our mothers, and also, I think, as a as a mom, you know you can, you can dig into that playbook and that helps you being a better leader. And I'm not saying women are better leaders than men, but they have that nurturing approach that is really instinctive for women and they apply that to their kids. So, hey, let's take some of that and apply it to my team members. And that approach you know building great relationship, understanding, developing empathy, communicating, while setting expectations properly. You know you do that with your kids, right?

Valerie Cockerell: 8:42

I don't know about you, scott, but if you were when you were, I know, when I was a teenager, if my mom said, hey, valerie, don't come home too late, I would be going out and I'd come back home at you know, midnight, one o'clock in the morning, and the next day my mom would say well, valerie, you know how, why did you get home so late? And I said well, it was only midnight, when, in my mom's mind don't come home too late was 10pm, but she failed to set the expectation properly. So when you're a mom, you you make that mistake once. And then the second time you say, hey, scott, be home by 10. And it's very clear. There's no gray area. So we can learn from this as a leader, take that and think about taking the time to set expectations very clearly with people so you get the outcome you want to get.

Valerie Cockerell: 9:30

And a lot of people say oh, I don't like giving feedback. You know why you don't like giving feedback? Because you never set the expectation very clearly in the first place and you left some room for interpretation and the outcome did not look like what you wanted. But now what do you do? You have zero credibility. You can't go back and say you didn't do what I told you to do. Well, wait a minute, you just told me not to come home too late.

Valerie Cockerell: 9:53

What is too late for you? What is too late for me? So I think all these little things are things that we all can relate to. We all have a mother, whether she was perfect or imperfect, and we can take those learnings either that we've acquired either as a child being on the receiving end of mothering or as a parent trying to teach and educate our children. So it is something I think when I talk about it, when I do keynote speeches or workshop and I mention it, I see all the heads nodding like this, because everybody are like yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about because I've lived those situations.

Scott Townsend: 10:33

You gave us some examples there of what moms do for their kids and what great leaders can do for their employees. Being crystal clear, setting forth having clarity in the expectations, which then Then makes feedback easier Feedback, especially the feedbacks a little. Something went wrong. That's never fun, but at least with a clear cut expectation you can go back to that expectation and try to discover why the expectation wasn't met by the employee.

Valerie Cockerell: 11:15

Yeah.

Scott Townsend: 11:17

Go ahead.

Valerie Cockerell: 11:19

I think a lot of it has to do with taking the time to communicate clearly, be crystal clear about what you want. Too often I think in life in general doesn't necessarily have to be raising your kids or being a leader in an organization. We rush towards the outcome and fail to do the prep work or invest the time upstream so you can get the right results. I think in a lot of time we're just in a hurry and we don't prep. It's like time management. We don't manage our time or schedule thing properly and think about things thoroughly. We get into the execution mode right away instead of the preparation mode. Then we're frustrated. We don't get what we expect from our kids or from the people who work with us.

Scott Townsend: 12:13

What audiences manage like a mother primarily targeted towards and why.

Valerie Cockerell: 12:20

I think a lot of people they see the name, they're like, okay, this is a chick book, this is for women, this is for mothers. I always argue, saying this is not a book just for mothers, it's not even a book just for women, for the very reason that we all have a mom, we've all experienced that one way or another and we can learn from this. I think if a man reads the book, we'll reflect back, hear some of the stories and said yeah, I've lived through that. My mom did this. As your mom ever said, scott, what did I just say when you were a kid? Would your mom say, scott, what did I just say? Why do moms do this? Because they want to make sure that you heard it and you understood what she just said. They're trying to get your undivided attention. I think that's a good lesson for leaders to make sure that the message not only has been heard, but the message has been understood. The problem with communication I talked about that in the book. We send out a message and we think our job is done when, in reality, communication is complete, when the message comes back to you in the way it was intended in the first place. As a leader. You need to go out there and ask people you partner with or you work with, or people will work for you, and say what did you understand what this project or this suggestion that I made? What did you hear in that comment that we made? What it implies is that there is a two-way communication. It's a two-way street. The message has to be intact when it gets to its destination. Again, for the very reason I was talking about, we don't always take the time to check and we assume that we hit the, especially with emails and stuff like that. You hit the send button and you're like, okay, job done, and the person on the receiving end has a totally different interpretation of what was meant initially Little things.

Valerie Cockerell: 14:31

It's interesting because yesterday I was browsing your podcast to see and I found there was a thread through most of your episodes and I totally related to it. A lot of it was very practical and little things. I think in one of your podcasts you mentioned atomic habits, which I think is a great book, but that idea that, instead of trying to swallow those big things and make dramatic changes in our lives that are overwhelming and we tend to overcome it ourselves trying to achieve those great big things. Let's change some simple things. Let's do little steps. I could relate to this and as I looked at your podcast, I'm thinking like, yeah, I love this because those are all little advice, little things you can change every day that, in the end, can make you a better person, a happier person, a more fulfilled leader, a more effective leader, all kinds of things. Because I think very often when you go and listen to speakers or listen to podcasts, or there's a lot of great people out there that are extremely smart and very inspiring, but sometimes you walk away from it. You've been inspired and then you're like, all right, great, but what do I do with that? Now, today, for me, what is it that I can do and change? What I loved about your podcast I'm not just trying to be brown-nosing here, but for me, what I love about your podcast is the advices that I could extract from the conversations you had with your different guests are changes that you can do whether you host a party or whether you get organized, and you just have those behaviors that you can implement.

Valerie Cockerell: 16:23

And that's the key. Let's give people some little solutions. That's what I do in my book little solutions. There's 21 chapters. For every chapter there's a different competency of leadership. I said, when it comes to communication, think about those little things. When it comes to developing people, think about those little things when it comes to recognizing, when it comes to giving feedback so people can do something with it. Those are tools that they can choose. Okay, I'm not going to do all of that, but I'll take those three and tomorrow I'm going to start practicing it. Anyway, I just want you to share that with you.

Scott Townsend: 16:59

Cool, you were talking about communication a while ago and that is not. The very definition of communication is if you speak to somebody, all you've done is created some noise. But if you speak to someone and then they speak back to you to help you understand, that they understand what you're talking about. Now you've got communication and you can look at. I was thinking of airline pilots. When the tower tells the airplane to go to runway 425, heading right, I don't know all that mumbo jumbo stuff, but the pilots, it seemed, always repeat back what they've heard so that the tower knows that they are heading in the right direction, the right speed, because it's very important, because they could really get into a dangerous position if they even did one thing incorrectly. Yeah, how do you say repeat back to me what I just said, without sounding condescending or kind of like a jerk?

Valerie Cockerell: 18:12

I would say as a leader, it depends what you're addressing. But let's say you go and talk to somebody who works in the front line and you say we have this new process that's been put in place, what's your take on this? And not explain it back to me, what's your take on this? How do you and see what comes back and be very inquisitive in the question to make them explain the process back to you to make sure that when the process went through all the different levels of the org charts, by the time it gets to the bottom line, it's been understood. But before that I would say here's where, if it's in the case of a new process, I should hope that most leaders will know to involve the people on the ground to put the process together in the first place. And that's when you do that you've already won the battle. And it's interesting because my husband and I we're consulting now with a lot of organization and our goal is always to have them come up with the solutions instead of us coming as those two outside consultants who tell you oh, let us tell you what you need to do with your business. You've been working here 20 years, but here we are. We've been here two weeks working with you and now we know exactly what you need to do. There's nothing more frustrating than this. So the challenge for a consultant or somebody who starts, you know, even a new leader in an organization is, even if you know exactly what the answer is, make them say it first, make you know, involve them in the solution.

Valerie Cockerell: 19:54

It's same with kids. You know, kids ask you questions all the time and you, I think, the best thing a parent can do when they ask those, you know, inquisitive questions, he says well, what do you think? And see what they do, because it forces them to develop their critical thinking, it allows them to, you know, give way to their imagination and creative minds and, oh boy, the answers that come back are, just, you know, priceless. I mean some of the stories that kids tell you. I think in the book I tell the story of we lived in Florida at the time and Space Shuttle took off and my older son. They were seeing one of the rockets take off and he said he was probably seven years old at the time and he said you know, I wonder what happens if something goes wrong with the Space Shuttle, what they do about it, and my three and a half year old, four year old daughter went like well, we tape, we scotch tape, you know? For her it was just so obvious. But you know, letting them just spill out those things is just wonderful.

Valerie Cockerell: 21:03

And then you can engage in a conversation. Well, margot, we tape, how do you think that would work? And then she would launch in this whole explanation in her little mind. She knew exactly that. You know, maybe there's something starts shifting and there's a crack somewhere. You put a piece of tape on it and so do you think the astronauts have that in their toolbox? Oh, yes, they have, you know.

Valerie Cockerell: 21:23

And then you have this beautiful, thoroughly entertaining conversation with your kids. So it's the same with people in an organization Give them the opportunity to say their piece, to contribute, and I think they will. And even if the idea is not worth it or not the right answers, always thank them. Hey, thanks for your contribution. Now let me explain to you why I think that may not be the right answer or that may not be the right interpretation. And now you have a dialogue, right, you have this back and forth communication. So again, very simple things. I'm not reinventing the wheel here, but I can't stress enough the fact that we tend to, you know, leap over all those basic principles because we so focused on whatever outcome we're looking for.

Scott Townsend: 22:15

The explanation of why. You know, I can see you know, if you go to your kid and say, can you tell me why it's not a good idea to play in the street Instead of don't play in the street, you know, because I said so and they could let them come up with their. Well, I might get hit by a car or I might you know. Oh yeah, very good, that's right, that's why we don't play in the street. Very good, yeah, getting them to dial in and communicate back is this, and it's a lot of fun to get some to think and it reminds me of a funny joke and you may, you may decide to cut it off.

Valerie Cockerell: 22:55

But this little boy, johnny, comes running into his mom's kitchen and he's about nine years old, and he says mom, mom, you got to, where do I come from? And the mom bites her tongue and goes uh, here we go, here's the time, that's the question, the birds and the bees. So she says well, maybe I can start giving him an explanation. So she gives him this explanation and she's, you know, did not expect that question so soon. So she stumbles over words and everything, but somehow she gives a acceptable explanation and the little boy is listening to his mom and she says she said but why did you ask? He said well, my friend John said he comes from Oklahoma and that's the. You know, this is the thing that the mom did not ask. What, what is it exactly you're trying to know here? You know, and I always think of that joke because I'm like you know, sometimes we quick to jump to the what we think is the answer people are looking for and we're not providing them with what actually they need.

Scott Townsend: 24:04

In the book. You said something that I circled. I think it's on page 188 or something like that. I'll just go ahead and say it. He said you cannot build trust. You said you said you cannot build trust. And I thought you know you always hear people say that you can build trust. So what did you mean by that? Can you explain that a little bit?

Valerie Cockerell: 24:30

Because you know, trust is involves two people and you can do everything right and make and meet people halfway, but they have to come up and meet you too, and sometimes people for you know all kinds of reasons. They've been burnt in the past, they've had a bad experience. There's just no chemistry. They will not trust you and it's something you will not be able. You can't beat yourself about it. There is nothing you're going to be able to do Now. You can create an environment for people to trust you, but at the end of the day, you cannot make it happen for sure. It's got to be something that comes from other. You can tell people trust me, no, you can tell it until you blew in the face. If they never trust you and it could be just because there's no chemistry, I don't trust this person. I don't know if it's ever happened to you, but for me and I think maybe, maybe it's more a woman thing than a man thing Dan and I, my husband and I we always talk about this, because sometimes we go in the meeting and with a potential client and we come out of the meeting and Dan's all gun-ho about it. Oh, this is great. You know, I think we can do this, we can do that. And I said, uh-uh, this is not. You know, this is not going to. Nothing is going to come out of this meeting. And that is like what makes you think this. I said, no, it just did not. I don't trust the person, I don't think it. We clicked, there's no chemistry here. And he's like why, where are we in the same meeting, you know?

Valerie Cockerell: 26:12

But I think women tend to read the signs and I don't want to generalize, right, but women tend to read the signs and try to um, and that's how they survive by. By the way, you know, through history women have survived by being always on the defensive, looking for danger, whatever's lurking out there. So I think we tend to see maybe more than we should in those little signs and we reluctant to um, to trust people. We're more on the defensive. So, uh again, sometimes it's just feeling, you know, you're like um, no, I, I, I don't trust that person and or nothing's going to come out of this. Um, this potential client, uh, it's interesting, I think. And and also because I think men can rely on, on their strength and athleticism and smarts and their confidence, you know, they're more confident, they're like okay if something happens down the line. Well, we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Scott Townsend: 27:13

But women are more careful in their approach, so you know, I think about in, uh, having the difficult conversation with an employee or with your child. You said our motivation isn't to judge or condemn. It is about changing a behavior and I think so many times we think we are we need to uh, put them in a bad light, like they did something wrong. They're like I don't believe that they're a bad person. Um, I can't believe you did that. You know like there were, but really what you're saying is, I guess maybe explain that a little bit You're just trying to change a behavior, not condemn a person.

Valerie Cockerell: 27:58

I think, when it comes to feedback, um, it's very important whether you're a leader or you're a parent and, by the way, I don't pretend to be a perfect mother or perfect leader, for that matter, but I've learned through the years that you know what you need to do is to really help them be a better person or be the best person they can be, and that's what you, a mother, tries to do with her kids, when she gives them, when she coaches her kid, when she disciplines her kid. First of all, mom doesn't wait for the end of the year to do it. You know. She doesn't wait for December to say hey, scott, you misbehaved this year and you didn't do your chores and you antagonize your brothers or your siblings, and then, therefore, you're not going to get any Christmas presents. No, mom, she gives you feedback every day. Right, she sees it with the notorious eyes behind the back of her head, as we say. She sees everything and when she spots it, she will, she will call it out right away. And she does this. It comes from a good intent, even if it's not always articulated that way, but it's. It comes from the intention to make you the best person you can be. Your mom wants the best for you in life. So imagine if you're a leader and you do the same thing with your team members. You know, the idea is I'm going to make you the best person that you can be, the most professional person, the most effective person, and the feedback I'm about to give you is something that will help you grow and be better and adopt better behaviors.

Valerie Cockerell: 29:34

Because and this is where it's very subtle, it's there's a big difference between telling somebody you're arrogant or telling somebody you've said something arrogant. First of all, when you start with your arrogance, it's kind of it's a lump generalization and it doesn't sound like you know it's about you as a person. It's something that's like something that you wear with you every day. But when you say to somebody you said something arrogant, first of all it's attached to facts, so it's a lot more credible and it happened once or twice or whatever, but you have the facts together and it leaves the door open and the possibility that this can be corrected. So it's really important again, whether you're parents or your leader, that you focus on changing the behavior and not be not making this judgmental thing.

Valerie Cockerell: 30:33

I think most people the you know the vast majority of people. They are good people who make a mistake, and that's the difference. Instead of being you know you're just a, you know, you're a bad kid. Nobody, moms, don't say you're a bad kid, you know. Or maybe if they do, it's in the heat of the moment, and but you know that the intention here is to change a specific behavior.

Valerie Cockerell: 30:55

So focus on the behavior, correct the behavior, be specific, be timely. Don't wait for the end of the year to give the feedback and then remember you know much like mom moms when they say they do that with their kids, they love their kids unconditionally, they want this, it comes from a good intention, it's a gift. So adopt the same approach when you are a leader, and then you'll get better results and you'll see people understand and it's easier to receive the feedback too. When somebody tells you hey Scott, let me tell you this, and it comes from a desire to make you a better person, and that, to me, it's a critical thing for leaders to do, so they can give effective feedback, because when somebody makes a general statement about you, what do you do? You shut down and that's the end of the conversation. You know that's not an effective way to do. You're not going to make any change. That way, nobody's going to improve and everybody's going to walk away. First-rated.

Scott Townsend: 31:57

I'm like your take on. You mentioned the. Ken Blanchard said the key to successful leadership is influence, not authority. What do you think he meant by that?

Valerie Cockerell: 32:15

I think it has to do with making sure people understand why they're being asked to do something and then they do it, not because they have to, but because they want to, and they understand that it's the right thing to do. Same when you your kids, have homework. You can battle your kids every night and look over their shoulders to make sure they do their homework. Or you can focus on explaining to them that homework is that they should do it, not because they have to, but because you know it's the right thing to do. It's going to help them. Give them some practice time so they can master the skills that they're trying to acquire. Same at work, you know you want to make sure that people do think they understand the why behind it. So what you're trying to do is influence them instead of telling them. Because if your leadership approach is just saying I'm going to stand here because I have the authority and I'm going to make you do this because that's what you paid for, well, good luck with that, because the day you turn around, people will do whatever they want to do, because you know they're looking over the shoulders. They don't see the purpose in what they do, so why should they bother. Same with your kids. So you know. However, if you influence people by saying, well, here's the why behind all this, then they will pick up the task. They will pick up the ball and roll with it, you know, and run with it, sorry. So that's the approach, just a more subtle approach that implies that you explain the purpose of what people do, because you know people work for three things. One, they want to pay the bill. We all want to pay the bills, right. Second, you want to be relevant. You want to make a difference. You want to impact the world, or your workplace or your, you know, in one way or another you want to have an impact in the world. And three, you want to be part of a team. You want to belong. That's a natural, you know, something we all aspire to. So when you explain to people why they do what they do and how it contributes to the big picture, now you have people who feel like, okay, I belong because I'm part of this group of people and we're trying to achieve this big thing together. And I'm relevant because my job makes a difference.

Valerie Cockerell: 34:36

And I always say, when it comes to work environment, whatever you're doing is whether it's an experience you're delivering, or it's a product. That thing is a big puzzle and everybody in your organization owns a piece of the puzzle. Now I would always tell people on my team you know, when you do a puzzle and you're missing one piece, at the end it's super frustrating because it is glaring, that's the only thing you can see. It's that one piece of the puzzle that's missing and it ruins the whole thing. In organization teamwork it's the exact same thing. When we're missing a piece doesn't matter if you're the vice president of a company or a frontline employee. Your piece is just as important. People need to know that. As a leader, it's your responsibility to make sure they know that and they understand it, because when they do, that's when you can be a leader where you just influence them instead of telling them do this, without giving them the context or the reason why you need this done.

Scott Townsend: 35:39

We had a I have a just a quick story about that. I'm in the retail world as well and we had, we were. We had one KPI that we were dead last in, and so I took it upon myself. I had no position, power, authority, I was just a guy and I wasn't assigned to do it, I just took it upon myself. I thought I wonder if, just with influence, I can move the needle just a little bit.

Scott Townsend: 36:14

And so every day I would find out where we are with this KPI and then I would walk around and hey, billy, how's it going? You know, hey, did you do your, your quiz today or whatever they had to do? Oh no, I forgot about it. Yeah, okay, well, that's cool. So I never. I couldn't come down on anybody because I had no position to be doing that, I was just, it was just influence. So I just, real easy, looked very short. We wound up being number one for that quarter and that really showed me. You know, when you walk up beside somebody and and work with them and instead of you have to do this, get this done by the end of the week or else it's a whole lot fun, or to say, to stay on the sunny side of the street and, just you know, have fun with the employees and and help them out.

Valerie Cockerell: 37:11

Yeah, Absolutely yeah. That's a great example and, and you know, maybe just the fact that you would ask the question suddenly it triggers a chain reaction. It's like, hmm, why is he asking about this? And even though you never said more than that, people will start thinking well, maybe it is something I should think about and I should, you know, I should take care of. And now you've, you've planted the seeds, you know, in their minds. So, that's a great example.

Scott Townsend: 37:41

The last question I have us here at time is running up here what would the difference be between manage like a mother and then your next book? I know you're not managed like a father, which is what you should. That would be a good sequel. What? What would the two books? How would the two? Would they be the same or would they be different?

Valerie Cockerell: 38:05

Some of it partly. You know some of the things that I talk about manage like a mother and obviously I'm a mother, so that's what came naturally to me. Part of it would be the same. I think the whole piece about you know, maybe the nurturing is more mother thing and the whole piece about self confidence I was talking about is maybe different, and that's I haven't developed that too much in the book. This is one of my regrets and maybe that's my manage like a mother 2.0 or my next book, because I think, as we leaning more and more towards a more nurturing approach in leadership, I think women are, like I said earlier, are uniquely prepared to be leaders, which begs the question why do we only have 35% of leaders in the workplace when we actually have parity? We have 50%, I think even now there's a little bit more woman than men in the workplace in general, but there's only about 35% leaders that are women and about 22 or 23% when it comes to executive CEO positions. So I think the big difference for me is right there in that confidence, that lack of confidence that women have, and I think, yeah, I think that would be the biggest difference. I think again, because men have this, you know, the alpha thing, I mean the dominant gene that maybe women don't have. They have a different approach to collaborations and that is something that I think changes the way we work. And I'll tell you, there's a specific thing I'm thinking about.

Valerie Cockerell: 39:55

About 10 years ago, mit did a study and they stumbled upon something. That's not what they were trying to find out, but they just stumbled upon this finding. They were trying to measure the collective IQ of a group. Before they had always focused on IQ of an individual, but now they were trying to evaluate what happens. If we put, you know, people together will measure their IQ. So they had the individual IQ and then they would measure the overall group IQ. So they form different groups, they give them tasks and case studies and stuff, and what they found out were three things. The first thing was that if you put people were really high IQs together, it would not necessarily make the group a highly performing group, a group with a really high IQ. And then the second finding was if in the group there was somebody with a really high IQ, but that person was really, you know, talking about authority, kind of dictating the pace and dominating the conversation the overall, the collective IQ of the group would actually go down. The performance of the group would actually go down.

Valerie Cockerell: 41:03

And the third thing which is really interesting is that they found that the collective IQ of the group would be really high when there were more women in the group. And that's, that was the finding that we're not expecting. And not because women are smarter than men, but because they collaborate better and maybe because of this lack of self confidence that they sometimes have, but maybe because of the fact that, like I was saying earlier, they read the signs, they want the defensive, they pay attention to what's going on around and they're more open to constructive criticism, they are more open to other ideas and, as a result, the combination of those skills with the skills of a man made this group highly performing. And that's what I was, you know, my point is always to say I am not implying that women are smarter than men or they're better leaders than men, but I think they bring different skills to the table and if we can mesh the two in an even manner and we can, you know, give more room at the table to women, which a lot of organizations, more and more organizations, do now, but there's still some industries where they're really lagging behind.

Valerie Cockerell: 42:14

But if we can do the mesh the two now we have a winning formula and we know with younger generations today coming on the workforce, the whole authority down. You know, top to top down kind of authority doesn't work anymore and there's huge pushback. And we've seen that in every industry. Then and I, whenever we get involved with clients, whatever culture, whatever industry, it is glaring how the shift that's had that has happened. So it's going to require more nurturing and I think the best way to do this is to join forces and make leaders just stronger teams and more powerful and impactful teams.

Scott Townsend: 42:58

That's very good. That's a great way to sum it up today too. So the book is managed like a mother by Valerie Cockrell. You can get this book, I guess, anywhere you buy a book, right Amazon or target Amazon Kindle Bonson novels.

Valerie Cockerell: 43:17

You know the the usual places.

Scott Townsend: 43:21

And if someone wants to get in touch with you, find out more information or has a question or wants to talk more about consulting or whatever, how would they get in touch with you?

Valerie Cockerell: 43:32

So the website at Valerie, Valerie at Cockrell consultingcom, and we also have a whole page dedicated to manage like a mother. There's a couple of manage like a mother minutes on there and I'm also collecting stories from anybody who wants to contribute to have. When I wrote the book, a lot of people said oh, it reminds me of this thing. My mom would always say, and I always say please record yourself 30 seconds, a minute, whatever, and send me the video and we'll post it on that page Because there's all those tidbits of learning and it's really fascinating to see that doesn't matter what culture, what country, what area of the country you live in, what background.

Valerie Cockerell: 44:17

You have moms of the. They have their own little you know bits of wisdom and I think that's what I'm sharing a very unique way and that I found that I put quotes inside the book and now I'm encouraging anybody who wants to give me a story. Do a little record, a little video doesn't have to be a big production and say here's what I've learned from my mom, and I think it's that in my job every day and I think of her because of that and I would love to hear more of those stories. So if any of your listeners or yourself are so willing. Don't hesitate to reach out, and would love to collect more stories.

Scott Townsend: 44:53

Yeah, I can do that, Definitely will Well, valerie, thanks for your time, thanks for joining us, sharing your expertise, and it was great, great to visit with you.

Valerie Cockerell: 45:05

And I just thank you for having me. I really thoroughly enjoyed the conversation, so thanks a lot, scott.

Scott Townsend: 45:11

So for Valerie Cockrell, this is Scott Townsend. Thanks for watching, listening to the Scott Townsend show, and I'll see you next week. Everything's going to be all right and we'll talk to you later. The Scott Townsend show is a Ditzelman production. For more episodes, visit the Scott Townsend show YouTube channel. Listen on Apple.

Valerie Cockerell: 45:51

Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.